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AN: FCA small cars will switch to PSA architecture

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by aldo90731, Aug 28, 2020.

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  1. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    AFAIK Soul is not an SUV. It's an MPV or if you prefer a subcompact minivan.

    Offering SUV without mechanical AWD option is a suicide. Even Toyota offers AWD on their SUV models like on the RAV4.

    IMO you've just proven my point.
     
  2. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure the public cares how the rear wheels get driven in this segment. What they care about is if it's snowy or icy they have more then the front end driving them.
     
  3. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    They do care about car price and I'm not sure that fuel economy is so important in US because fuel is cheap.
     
  4. Chris mopar

    Chris mopar Well-Known Member

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    . That may be true of someone who wants a Hybrid AWD, but not everyone wants a Hybrid but Do want AWD So those people will need mechanical AWD.
     
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  5. tabutler

    tabutler Active Member

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    Electric AWD is fine for a Mommy mobile/CUV like the Rav4, but true off-roader like a Jeep it just does not make sense.
     
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  6. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    And that's where the Jeep dilemma comes in here in the states. Jeep has to lower their pedigree here to compete in the smaller front drive based classes. This may be better served by another brand here, like Chrysler.
     
  7. serpens

    serpens Well-Known Member

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    I think the lack of fuel economy concern is valid for people shopping a class up (GC level), but the CRV and RAV4 consumer data suggests it is a factor for compact SUVs. And at the very least, thinking about fuel economy holistically prevents frustrating transmission tuning that tries to make up for an overweight vehicle and thirsty engine (looking at you 2.4L Cherokee).
     
  8. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

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    I think you're right on point.

    Unfortunately "The People Who Matter" at the soon to be former...(THANK GOD!)...FCA seem to disagree with us.
     
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  9. patfromigh

    patfromigh Well-Known Member

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    The battle line in the marketplace for hybrids and electrification, specifically plugin vehicles, is found along the small to medium crossover utility vehicle segment. Please bear in mind I am talking about the USA only. I don't even know what the situation is in Canada is, since their market and regulators allow for a greater availability of plugin vehicles up north.

    The Chevy Volt captured the imaginations of early adopters, but GM abandoned them when the corporation went "all in" for battery electrics. Sales of the Volt were never high compared to vehicles with conventional drivetrains, but the vehicle has a lot of influence. The people who bought or leased one years back are now looking for a replacement. Chevy's own Bolt hasn't appealed to a number of Volt buyers for what ever reason. Perhaps range anxiety is real out in flyover country and isn't just a clever concept conceived by the marketing staff.

    While it was Mitsubishi who originated the idea of a small plugin SUV with their Outlander PHEV, sales of that model remained low as other markets received the bulk of that model's production. At the same time Mitsubishi was laying the groundwork with their Outlander, Toyota found out a lot of people love hybrids, but disliked the Prius. At one point last decade Toyota was considering having a Prius sub-brand. Indeed, they were on their way with the Prius C, Prius plugin, and Prius wagon. All that has changed when Toyota changed tactics and now simply offers their hybrid setup as an option in traditional forms of motor vehicles. Last years sales of one hundred thousand RAV4 hybrids has caught the attention of the industry. Ford has responded with hybrid and plugin options for the Escape. Honda also offers a hybrid CRV. Toyota has advanced the state of the art with their RAV4 Prime, which offers fuel efficiency with performance. This year, due to the pandemic, has not been kind to some of these particular models because of supply and production issues. Such problems do not originate with low market demand.

    Should Jeep ignore such a market? Sooner or later all the manufacturers have to comply with zero emissions mandates. This means mostly plugin vehicles and Toyota has found a rich vein of buyers for them in the crossover segment.
     
    #69 patfromigh, Sep 2, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
  10. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I think Jeep needs to ignore them here in the states. Jeep means something a bit different here than in the rest of the world. Leave the smaller, less need to conquer the Rubicon, vehicles to another brand. Too many compromises have to take place for Jeep in this market.
     
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  11. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    A 4xe Wrangler is being announced tomorrow. There’s a lot of good things in electric traction for Jeep’s core brand image.
     
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  12. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    Wrangler 4xe has mechanical AWD unlike Compass and Renegade 4xe.
     
  13. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Suicide? Have you checked Kia Soul's sales volume in the Unites States? It has averaged over 100k sales per year (with 2009 being a short year and 2020 not even a complete year).
     
  14. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    You missed the part where I said that Kia Soul is not an SUV. It's a MPV/minivan.

    Mini MPV - Wikipedia (at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_MPV )
     
  15. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Most people that own one consider it a small SUV or CUV, certainly not a minivan. You are trying to force a European definition on a North American market. Without sliding doors, it won't be considered a minivan here and the MPV term isn't used here by the majority of buyers.
     
  16. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    It's looked upon here as a utility vehicle. Nothing more, and certainly not a van. Sadly, vans are almost poison to many today.
     
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  17. codypet

    codypet Well-Known Member

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    ^Why though? Seriously. Build something the size of the 1st gen vans make it seat 5 for comfort. Give it Stow n Go for the rear seat. Something akin to the Scion Xb. In theory, it should fly off the lot.
    upload_2020-9-2_7-51-25.png
    This is what a 1st gen can do with the rear seat out! I'm not saying it should have those exact dimensions, but it should show what you can be capable of in that vehicle footprint.

    As Ralph was quoted, (I think in Autoline) if you ask what the customer wants out of a vehicle, they'll describe a minivan. But they will tell you they don't want a minivan.
     
  18. BEEAH

    BEEAH Well-Known Member

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    Sign me up for a Peugeot 308 SW with a diesel and a 6M!!

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    I have to deisagree. It only for "political" reason between companies more than technical. Infact in the letter to the suppliers it is written to stop development of the NEW FCA platform.

    To remember that that CMP is not only a PSA platform, but it is a PSA - Dongfeng platform (Dongfeng, a chinese state owned company, could stop the merger).

    Additionally there is no problem with the batteries, there are methane (natural gas) version of the small FCA vehicles, even for the A-segment Fiat Panda.
    Methane tanks are more difficult to put in a vehicle than a battery since limitations in the shape (for most are cylindrical) and safety (safety valve).

    Do someone really think that even in actual Fiat Panda cannot be installed electric motors, batteries, ... for an full hybrid or BEV vehicle?

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe someone can explain me how they could install a full power (with no additional electric batteries) fuel cell with hydrogen as energy vector contained in gas tanks (350 bar pressure) in a Fiat Panda 2nd generation (the size of actual Fiat 500, shorter than by 4 inches of an actual Fiat Panda)?
    A fuel cell vehicle is an electric vehicle, range was 200 km, refill time 5 minutes.

    And it was more than a "prototype", infact three vehicles where given for tests to be used by employees of the administration city of Mantova (Italy).

    The base vehicle was the 4x4 version of the platform. the one also used for CNG versions.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    More information can be found here: Fiat Panda Hydrogen - Wikipedia (at https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Panda_Hydrogen )
     
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