AF: AN: FCA small cars will switch to PSA architecture | Page 5 | Allpar Forums
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

AN: FCA small cars will switch to PSA architecture

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by aldo90731, Aug 28, 2020.

Tags:
  1. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    36,662
    Likes:
    19,401
    It was amazing what those vans could do.
    Of course, modern crash standards mean thicker body structure so the same footprint would lose a little interior volume.
     
    #81 valiant67, Sep 2, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
    Adventurer55 likes this.
  2. codypet

    codypet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,310
    Likes:
    1,276
    Yep. That's why I think a 5 passenger version is the best you're gonna do in it. Gone are the days of cramming 8 people in there.
     
    valiant67 likes this.
  3. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    3,318
    Likes:
    4,302
    A Chrysler CUV with those dimensions, 2.0t and a smooth shifting auto trans, well built would sell. Something to complement the minivan. After all something needs to replace the Caravan at Windsor. I'm sure they'll try to use the plant practically sitting idle in Belvedere as leverage in the upcoming negotiations.
     
    page2171 and valiant67 like this.
  4. Heine Pedersen

    Heine Pedersen Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2015
    Messages:
    81
    Likes:
    75
    Fact is that PSA's platform are newer and more likely to survive, than the old stuff FCA's FWD's rides on today.

    No.. It's a DCT as they say in their own brochure.

    Electric engines should be good for rock climbing and that slow stuff..
     
  5. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    3,477
    Likes:
    4,548
    Platform doesn't work that way. With every new product it's updated. So for example FCA Small Wide is updated with every new product. New crash structure, materials and so on. Basic geometry and packaging constraints is something which is carried over.

    What can kill platform is cost cutting and decision based on production number. The one which is made in higher numbers may survive.

    Yet again, it's not.
     
    ScramFan likes this.
  6. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,364
    Likes:
    3,942
    "Old stuff" I would not call Small platform "old stuff", otherwise I would have to call also the PSA EMP2 in the same way.

    PSA EMP2 was first used in Citroën C4 Picasso unveiled march 2013 and Peugeor 308 (2013).
    The FCA Small version 2 was first used by Fiat 500L that was launched mid 2012.
    The FCA small 2.1, the one for SUVs, had its first use in Jeep Renegade in 2014 (sales started june 2014 in Europe).

    EMP2 had to be used by PSA and GMP in their alliance, but the alliance ended very soon.

    The nature (vehicles for which were developed) of PSA platform can easily see in the news release that both made in 2013. One can note that GM dropped the collaboration for B segment vehicles...
    So the plaform was for B-MPV and C-CUV.
    https://media.groupe-psa.com/en/psa-peugeot-citroën/press-releases/group/psa-and-gm-report-progress-strategic-alliance

    EMP2 was adapted to be used with electrified vehicles in 2019. The 4WD can be obtained only using an electrified rear axle.
    Nothing new since FCA already had prototypes of electric rear axles years years ago. Why they didn't put into production? Don't know.

    Is so "antiquate" the FCA's Small that has PHEV version with rear electric axle, and that also using McPherson suspension at the rear.
     
    ScramFan and T_690 like this.
  7. Heine Pedersen

    Heine Pedersen Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2015
    Messages:
    81
    Likes:
    75
    Page 32-33

    Why would they use a 6 speed Aisin? Makes no sense
     
  8. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,364
    Likes:
    3,942
    Not to be bad, but it could be useful, at least for the ones interested, to compare, for example Jeep Compass 4xe PHEV to the Peugeot 3008 Hybrid4 PHEV on its so advanced "phantasmagoric" PSA EMP2 platform. But it could be useful also for standard models.

    Just a question, since many look at cargo volume, how is that the longer and with a longer wheelbase of the two electrified vehicles has a cargo volume of 395 l vs. 420 l while the standard models have 520 l vs. 438 l ?
    One of the reasons is that one of the vehicles has a smaller gasoline tank, weel the platform allows to do it and use that space for other uses.

    notes:
    - both rear eaxles should be sourced from GKN.
    - front Peugeot gearbox is an AISIN AW 8 speeds. The electrified version (hybrid FWD) should be the solution offered by AISIN.
     
    ScramFan and T_690 like this.
  9. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    3,477
    Likes:
    4,548
    FWD Pug 3008 II doesn't have IRS. Does eAWD variant has it?

    I've repeat it once again. Pug platforms doesn't offer good packaging. If you want 2005 Grande Punto vs 2019 Pug 208 II. Then you have Tipo vs 308 II. Also 508 II vs Giulia. 508 II which is FWD car with a very long wheelbase doesn't offer any more space than a RWD based car with around the same wheelbase and with shorter overall length. How is that possible?
     
    ScramFan likes this.
  10. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,313
    Likes:
    4,676
    It’s not a DDCT.

    upload_2020-9-2_16-54-31.png

    The spec-sheet at the back of the Renegade brochure lists both the 4xe and ICE+DDCT models as Automatico 6 marce which is correct, but not helpful.

    The Compass spec-sheet does make a distinction between cambio automatico a doppia frizione and plain old automatico.

    upload_2020-9-2_17-1-35.png


    Lots of reasons why this might be - one is that American buyers hate DDCT gearboxes, and even the presence of one will put off potential purchasers.
     
    ScramFan and T_690 like this.
  11. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,364
    Likes:
    3,942
    The 3008 Hybrid4 should have the multilink suspension, but I am not sure.
    The 3008 non hybrid have the twist beam rear supesnion, as use also Fiat Tipo, 500L, ...
     
    T_690 likes this.
  12. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,364
    Likes:
    3,942
    The Compass and REnegade 4xe have a 6 speed automatic gearbox, it should be the AISIN they already use.
    From technical datasheet 1st gear ratio is 4.459, while the DCT C635 has a 1st gear with ratio 4.154.

    To find EMEA datasheet one can consult this website, for example for a Compass: Models -> Jeep -> Compass -> technical datasheet

    Jeep® Compass | Jeep | FCA (at http://www.media.fcaemea.com/em-en/jeep/jeep-compass# )!

    I really don't understand why now they don't use PDF files.

    note: sometimes some information appear first in national sections than in "FCA international" section.
     
    ScramFan and T_690 like this.
  13. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,364
    Likes:
    3,942
    It was like that some time ago. Also the PHEV versions was supposed to use the DCT that is far more efficient than the AISIN automatic with torque converter.
    Than they switched to the AISIN automatic.

    With DCT and a rear electric axle they is practically any problem since one can open the clutch at very low speeds and move only with rear electric drive (it can be done also with the battery low -> see Jeep FAQs).

    For me is a non sense choice, at least for Europe.

    Maybe it is just that AISIN make extra discount on their 6 speed automatics if FCA buys more units.
    Or maybe is just preparing the switch from ZF 9HP to AISIN AW 8 speeds.
     
    ScramFan likes this.
  14. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    3,477
    Likes:
    4,548
    Or they are waiting for one which will offer P2 MHEV module?

    I'm not sure how keen is Aisin (read: Toyota) to allow someone to build their newest transmissions under a contract.
     
    ScramFan likes this.
  15. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    3,477
    Likes:
    4,548
    My desire for the next gen Cherokee is a something like a more affordable Velar. Of course it can be compared to a BMW X3 and similar. Not to Toyonda.

    RAV4 and CR-V? Compass is there and it can get bigger with the next generation and it can change rear suspension type to become even more space efficient.
    If they want product which can be offered in the near future there is a Jeep Low-D segment SUV in developments. Small Wide platform, 7 seats. Of course it can be offered as a 5 seat and it can be offered under a Chrysler brand in US if they dare. IMO it could be nice Toyonda competitor. AFAIK Toyonda is excuslively 5 seat in US although they are offered with a 7 seat option at some markets.

    Fuel efficient powertrains? AFAIK 1.5 turbo mated to a P2 MHEV DCT is just around the corner but I'm not sure if Americans will accept wet DCT. It has e-creep function.
     
    somber and ScramFan like this.
  16. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    3,477
    Likes:
    4,548
    Hybrids are dead except for Toyota. Wrong technology with too much costs and too similar to PHEV. Why not offer a PHEV?

    P2 MHEV is the future of hybrid technology. It's not a P0/BSG MHEV and surely it's not a HEV. Or is it just Toyota which is smart while all others are dumb?

    Zero emission? I don't know what does it means in US but I know it from EU. Zero emissions zones. BEV can enter and PHEV should enter. Usually it's in the city centers. But nobody push on how many PHEVs or BEVs someone must sell. There is a CO2 limit and it's up to manufacturer how to reach it.
     
  17. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    3,318
    Likes:
    4,302
    Unless gas prices start upward again electric vehicles here in the states will have a tough push. We may end up being the only place where ice engines will still be put in cars. And that will be a problem for global companies. And there's no stomach here for mandatory anything right now.
     
  18. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    36,662
    Likes:
    19,401
    In the US "zero emissions" is a label applied to a vehicle, not a zone (so far).
    In reality a "zero emissions vehicle" is really a remote emissions vehicle (the emissions aren't coming from the vehicle tailpipe but from a power plant somewhere else).
     
  19. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2017
    Messages:
    2,218
    Likes:
    3,438
    Exactly!

    I've always used the analogy that tracking the source of an EV's emissions is sorta like playing 'Three Card Monte'.:D
     
  20. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2017
    Messages:
    2,218
    Likes:
    3,438
    Make mine 100% electric please.:)
     
    BEEAH, somber and cdjr77 like this.

Share This Page

Loading...
 We are not affiliated with FCA. We make no claims regarding validity or accuracy of information or advice. Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.