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AN: Is FCA making a minivan mistake? [includes recent spy shots]

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by Allpar News System, Feb 2, 2015.

  1. Stratuscaster

    Stratuscaster Vaguely badass...
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    And despite there being a Chrysler minivan in the same showroom, there were many Plymouth buyers that simply left. They did not want a Chrysler. The same effect will happen when the Dodge goes away.

    100 stores. Out of almost 2600 total stores under the FCA banner. Like I said, most of the FCA dealers are multi-branded as Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Ram. There are exceptions.
     
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  2. Stratuscaster

    Stratuscaster Vaguely badass...
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    Don't feel bad - I don't have the number either. But still - this is something that those of us that want to keep the Grand Caravan around would need to justify to those above us holding the checkbook.

    "You can have another generation of minivan in a segment that has had a recent bump but really has no major growth in sight, or we can get you a crossover which is a hot and still growing segment of the market." Yes, that disregards the longtime loyal Dodge minivan buyers. I'm sorry.
     
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  3. Stratuscaster

    Stratuscaster Vaguely badass...
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    A downside to that is when all of those base model/bad reputation vehicles end up hitting the used car market and drag down the value of the model as a whole. (But it can be an upside to a buyer that knows what they are buying.)
     
  4. Ian

    Ian Car Freak

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    I agree and FCA and a handful here (not minivan buyers and/or people who don't care for minivans) have no idea of brand loyalty. Obviously, FCA has an issue with it as well.
     
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  5. Caravan does not fit Dodge's image today. At least the one they're trying to sell. Someone came up with the idea that Chrysler needs to be like Ford, namesake needs to be the mass market brand. I know some on here don't agree and that's your right, but I still believe you could keep the Caravan name, put T&C on the CUV and don't think sales will suffer.
     
  6. MoparNorm

    MoparNorm Active Jeeper
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    Over 300,000 purchased or leased an FCA minivan, 135,000 purchased a Dodge branded Caravan., so more than a few..and your humor is appreciated.
    To be concise, Dodge customers and Chrysler customers are not the same, some will migrate, many will not, Sergio needs to learn more about his customers...and not worry so much about consumers.,
     
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  7. dana44

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    I know it has been a long time, but it used to be a person moved UP to a Chrysler after the family either grew up or the family income increased to a level to make Chrysler show a level of status. I know Iacocca saved the company and all, but it slightly got lost right about that time in defining Chrysler as a move up. With that, we could argue this forever and you know what? Not all of us are going to be happy, just that simple, and we will find out how much of a success or mistake it was. Some of us will be able to say, told you so, some will say, yep, you were right, doesn't really matter at this point, this is just yelling in an empty stadium.
     
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  8. MoparNorm

    MoparNorm Active Jeeper
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    Not sure saying that, " some will migrate and some will not", is yelling...nor can we be sure the stadium is empty.
    The recent ramblings of the Ram design team, stating; "we are committed, ...we are committed to this", in reference to the lame grill and tailgate design, shows they are rattled, just as several last minute emergency changes were made to the front of the KL and just like Ducato and Doblo received last minute changes (albeit, none of those received enough treatment) they have been flexible at times to change designs that never should have been approved to begin with...
     
  9. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    I'm not sure how that conclusion is arrived at about rentals not resulting in sales. Many people rent a minivan because they need something larger than their car to travel. A good rental experience in a Chrysler van might sell a different Chrysler product, maybe not just the minivan.

    Heck I rent a U Haul truck to move stuff and I certainly have no intention of buying a box truck. Does that mean the placement of box trucks in U Haul's fleet is a failure since the purchase rate for box trucks is extremely low among box truck renters?
     
  10. dyslexic teddybear

    dyslexic teddybear Well-Known Member

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    "We are committed" seems very telling. They SHOULD be rattled. I know I don't speak for anyone but myself.....I'm a Dodge RAM/Cummins guy. I'm a pretty captive audience......there's nothing else.

    Why try to fix what is NOT broke?
     
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  11. dyslexic teddybear

    dyslexic teddybear Well-Known Member

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    Well put. A positive experience with a product.......how can it NOT have an affect? You may not go immediately and purchase a Chrysler product, but repeated good experiences will open people up to that.......it might be enough to get someone in the door to try one out......
     
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  12. CDJSalesPro

    CDJSalesPro Allpar Legacy

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    Everyone keeps saying that HISTORY has proven that the loss of the Grand Caravan will result in these huge losses in sales. I know everyone keeps saying it but is it TRUE?
    I have been with Chrysler since 95..... I don't remember the loss of Plymouth as being catastrophic to mini van sales. As a matter of fact if you look at the sales data in 2000 there was increase of over 60k units.....almost the exact number that Plymouth sales dropped that year
    From 1996 to 1999 Chrysler sold on average 48k
    From 1996 to 1999 Dodge sold about 260k
    from 1996 to 1999 Plymouth dropped from 186k to 117k
    The demise of Plymouth was announced in 1999
    but looked what happened in 2000

    Dodge surged to 298k(31k increase over 1999 figures)
    Chrysler surged to over 80k (increase of 33k over 1999 figures)
    Plymouth dropped to 54k (a decrease of about 60k from 1999 figures)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Automobile_Production_Figures
     
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  13. md80891

    md80891 Active Member

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    last night at Target UTA van pool van was a new Sienna, three years ago just before we found out mom was sick I rented a Sienna from Enterprise.

    What has not been established is if they lose money with fleet sales, there seems to be some assumption that all fleet sales are AVP units and after attending more than one GSA auction in the last seven years I can tell you that is not true.

    As far as allowing competition in the segment my concern is Hyundai's decreasing learning curve and they could DCA fleet sales and improve their product. Why allow them in the market and why not take other makers sales back?

    Fleet sales can be a sales tool. I spoke to a KL driver back in Oct when camped out at the extended stay. It was a rental with a four and the lack of power and excessive shifting was noted. my guess is that when new models are introduced a designated percent are aimed to fleets. I don't how you could get properly optioned models to fleets.

    I view giving up majority segment share to plural lead to say "we are number one" as moronic. ADDING new models such as CUVs to incrementally increase total sales by taking customers from other manufacturers is comparatively more advantageous.
     
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  14. Mopartial

    Mopartial Fits and Finishes

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    I'd like to see the evidence that leads to your conclusion.
     
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  15. Erik Latranyi

    Erik Latranyi Allpar Legacy

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    Caravan could fit Dodge's latest image. It would offer a compromise among a husband/wife that want a Charger or Durango, but really need a minivan.

    But that would take courage and creativity, something lacking by current management.
     
  16. Stratuscaster

    Stratuscaster Vaguely badass...
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    I have said that a loss of sales will result. Never said they would be "huge." A loss in sales is not as big of a deal as a loss of profit, IMHO.

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. DAGAR

    DAGAR Active Member

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    In order for this to really tell us much about whether (and how much) voyager sales were lost, we'd need to see overall minivan market size for each of those years. If the overall market was shrinking by the same percentage as the overall Chrysler mini sales in the years after 1999, then it would be a fair conclusion that few if any sales were lost to competitors. if the market was growing then a lot were lost.
     
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  18. CarSalesBill

    CarSalesBill Active Member

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    That's what I've suggested before, Chrysler Grand Caravan for the van and Chrysler Town and Country for the crossover. Or you could call the van, the 700 with various Voyager, Grand Caravan and Town and Country trim levels. I would also like to see the Chrysler brand have some new super trim level across the models like Ford is doing with Vignale in Europe or GMC does with Denali.
     
    #638 CarSalesBill, Feb 20, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2015
  19. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    The thing I found interesting is that sales did not spike with the redesigns. For most products (and assuming the changeover year is not longer or shorter, no economic issues, etc.) the sales usually peak with a new design then taper until the next redesign. The 2001 and 2008 redesigns did not exceed the 2000 or 2007 sales respectively. But the 2005 vans with Stow n Go did create a peak .
     
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  20. DAGAR

    DAGAR Active Member

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    OK, found the data for total mini sales dating all the way to 1990. 2000 was peak minivan sales then 2001 to 2003 saw declines in total minivan sales going from 1,371,234 to about 1,065,000 (only chart, no number) for a reduction of roughly 300,000 or 22%. Over the same time period total chrysler minis dropped from about 470,000 to 370,000 or about 21%. So Chrysler's share of the minivan market stayed essentially the same after the demise of Plymouth as it was before that. The one exception is that while the overall market grew very slightly from 1999 to 2000, chrysler's sales shrunk by about 40,000 sales. So in clonclusion it looks like Chrysler may have given up about 40,000 minivan sales due to the loss of Plymouth back in 2000. Since that time, however, Chrysler has improved from owning about 1/3 of the mini market to nearly half today.
     
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