Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by Allpar News System, Oct 2, 2014.
Dang it I have GOT to bookmark that facepalm......for those that do not listen.
Ford does seem to have chosen aluminum. That's not to say Chrysler can't learn as quickly especially if Ford loses some of their talent, which seems unlikely, given SM's dislike of paying extra for engineers (financially and/or in dealing with their other demands). Audi has a major head start. Chrysler was way ahead until 1998-99 when many of their aluminum-learned people left. I would assume that racing car style tube frames are absurdly expensive in mass production, or have some other drawbacks, or Viper would likely have been set up that way as Joel Jackson said he wanted it to be.
A little surprised Saturn plastic body panels disappeared -- wonder what the problem was with those. Owners seemed to love them. Don't know if they saved any weight, almost certainly added cost...
I'm starting to find it hard to track everything here and am considering assembling what we have so far as a start...
Dave, maybe its time to lock this thread as "Phase 1 of the article Q&A complete". Then we can start another thread to deal with "Phase 2" questions. Just a thought.
I understand that Audi has a major headstart on this use of this technology. However ...wouldnt Fords comitment to using it on the number 1 selling vehicle in the country qualify them as the leader(just by shear volume) Audi sells a whopping 4-5k total A8's per year...http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/audi-a8-sales-figures.html and around 20k A6'shttp://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/11/audi-a6-sales-figures.html
I had high hopes for the Pontiac Fiero. With the way the body panels were attached it seems it would have been relatively easy to change the look of the vehicle.
Perhaps lower costs involved to keep the vehicle fresh.
No. Not until they build them.
It is Dave's call-i have no problem with doing that.
Yes, I agree it's his call. I just figured it might be good to give you some time to breathe from all the questions, and others time to digest and formulate more questions. Although, when I mentioned the idea, even I thought it was weird to lock such a positive thread.
Since the original posters questions was "within 5-7" assumeing Ford dosent flop or bail out of producing a half million plus aluminum bodied Fseries trucks per year......
There has been a bunch of packaging related questions that can be a seperate thread.....if my fingers can hold out. LOL!
To answer yours and CherokeeVisions questions together....the Saturn and Fiero both had a semi-monocoque body from steel with non stressed skin. From a production standpoint the major problems were:
1. Alignment at assembly (corrected by final year of Saturn use)
2. Thermal expansion (the panels "grew" in the summer more than the underlying structure- partially corrected with a changed resin and manufacturing process at Saturn- causing distortion of the panel)
3. Adhesives failure under extreme heat and cold (corrected by end of Fiero production).
Thanks for the clarification, Bob. I still wonder why Saturn’s experiment was not repeated, even on later cars. I am guessing the cost was too high and/or they would have had to totally re-engineer the European cars they were selling under the Saturn name to make it work. It appears that Saturn was converted from “let’s make a profitable small car people will like and experiment with marketing/sales concepts” to “let’s dump our European cars here.” Like Eagle
Saturn by the time the issues had been worked out became a victim of the "brand management cabal" and was no longer allowed to go its own way.
Que Fleetwood Mac song.....
Sidebar on Saturn:
Saturn and Corvette as 2 divisions embraced CATIA v3/v4 long before GM as a corporation switched over from CGS (GMs Corporate Graphics System).
I would add: and assuming that consumer perception of the F150 remains positive to your list of qualifications. I think you can only be considered the "leader" in Aluminum bodied vehicles if you have both the sales success and customer satisfaction.
Which audi has done since 1999 with the all aluminum A2 (both generations) built at Nekarsulm along with the A8 & S8 (yes, I purposely left that out until now to trip up those that just want to argue).
Yes, Audi is the leader for now.
And nobody here would disagree with that..
Adding the A2....which correct me if I am wrong ...has never been sold in the United States....changes nothing.....
.....unfortunately that wasnt the original posters question..... But I conceede you are right Bob.....
Audi introduced their first all Al body back in 1923 with the streamlined Type K. I believe it did have solid axles though.....
Actually NSU (which turned into Audi) in 1913 with the 8/24 but is as irrelevant as the other parochial one claiming the A2 doesnt matter to a worldwide manufacturer such as Audi. You can find Audi's production numbers there also.