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AN: Wrangler may leave frame, factory, steel behind

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by Allpar News System, Oct 2, 2014.

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  1. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    RVC likes this.
  2. james.mooney.

    james.mooney. The Poster Formerly Known As "Bethlumboy"

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    So, do the changes that you suggest are possible effect the possibility for other variants, such as a pickup?
     
  3. TheMan

    TheMan What color are the clouds in your world?
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    Let's give dave a chance to get caught up before we go off on tangents.

    ...and yes.
     
  4. RVC

    RVC Active Member

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    Bob, I really have to ask this: exactly WHY is jeep resisting the idea of a floating differential for an IFS setup? I mean, it's 2014, as you said the cost difference has probably been reduced massively, and it's not like the wrangler is sold on the cheap anyways.
    What's your opinion, what is it exactly that's stopping them for going the lil blue route now that they have decided to adopt IFS? Is it strictly a penny picking matter?
     
  5. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    I was not able to get the time today to do this. You guys can go on, I'll catch up. RVC, I believe from prior forum posts it's a lack of necessary expertise and perhaps not wanting to license the patents, ... Bob?
     
  6. RVC

    RVC Active Member

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    I thought Bob had said on the past that those patents were still registered at Chryco's name?
     
  7. RVC

    RVC Active Member

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    Wouldn't Jaguar be a more advanced system though? Their method is an actual unibody similar to what you would have with steel sheets, whereas the ASF is a space frame build with close section tubes and extrusions to which panels are attached.
    The JLR method strikes me as more hi-volume friendly. Less flexible, but more "industrialized"?
     
  8. TheMan

    TheMan What color are the clouds in your world?
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    They (the current staff) are not capable of tuning and adapting it. They all lack the technical expertice to further develop it.

    And finally, there aint any incentive for me to give away MY 2 generations worth of development beyond the original.
     
    #868 TheMan, Oct 12, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2014
    Bob Lincoln likes this.
  9. TheMan

    TheMan What color are the clouds in your world?
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    No. The ASF is more advanced as it uses less material for greater strength in torsion and stiffness than the Jag's monocoque.

    Efficiency beats brute force. The RU series will give you the volume for a full monocoque over the BOF to make it practical.

    Note: I am using "RU" as a general term for the R platform, NOT that the RU will be an aluminum monocoque, but the variants built in the "box" defined by the platform.
     
    #869 TheMan, Oct 12, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2014
  10. TheMan

    TheMan What color are the clouds in your world?
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    Yes they are. 2 generations of improvements back in history.
     
  11. TheMan

    TheMan What color are the clouds in your world?
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    Ok ask away.
     
  12. RVC

    RVC Active Member

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    Thanks for your answers ;)
     
  13. Erik Latranyi

    Erik Latranyi Allpar Legacy

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    OK, Bob......if Wrangler is to be the "big test" of advanced use of aluminum for FCA, and since Town & Country is waiting....doesn't this almost confirm that the Wrangler will most likely not be BOF ?

    How much can you "learn" from making Wrangler tubs if the rest of your lineup is not BOF?
     
  14. TheMan

    TheMan What color are the clouds in your world?
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    You are making the mistake of thinking Wrangler is "THE" test. Correctly it is the "FIRST" phase.

    Aluminum manufacture is not the same as steel manufacture.

    In any manner.
     
  15. dyslexic teddybear

    dyslexic teddybear Well-Known Member

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    That was the answer I was afraid of. [sigh]


    So.....a curious, "what if" question?

    If either of the above changed.......technical expertise or incentive........

    Would it be cost effective?

    If I correctly understood "lil blue" when I read it, some big advantages, vs cost/complexity. Curious where that stands today.
     
  16. Erik Latranyi

    Erik Latranyi Allpar Legacy

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    As someone who has experience in metal manufacturing, I am well aware of the cross contamination and processing differences when steel & aluminum are utilized.

    However, to build a separate plant for aluminum production seems to be overkill for a Wrangler tub.

    Therefore, I am thinking this must mean a great deal of more aluminum used in Wrangler or in variants they are planning.
     
  17. TheMan

    TheMan What color are the clouds in your world?
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    Nope. I did not say a full plant..I said a body framing and paint shop would be added. The existing stations will still be used to continue building the existing cars.

    Chrysler cannot afford to lose an estimated $1 billion in lost production to shut down the plant entirely to clean it up, retool, and then restart from cold.

    You dont make up production. You lose it, its gone permanently.
     
    #877 TheMan, Oct 12, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2014
  18. TheMan

    TheMan What color are the clouds in your world?
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    You are not going to magically create either of the missing elements.

    ...and they have not got enough money to get Evan or myself back to work on it.

    To answer the other questions, yes it offers a lot of advantages.

    The problem is it aint gonna happen. That ship has sailed.
     
    #878 TheMan, Oct 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2014
  19. dyslexic teddybear

    dyslexic teddybear Well-Known Member

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    Sorry if I wasn't clear.

    A better way of putting my question perhaps........if years ago different decisions were made........before the ship sailed, if you will......

    Just curious and trying to understand how this design would compare to others re-cost/complexity vs advantages. My first read thru on the article, very complex. 2nd read, seemed more doable. Curious about difference in cost.......
     
    #879 dyslexic teddybear, Oct 12, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2014
  20. link3721

    link3721 Yes, This MK Goes Off-Road

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    So I take it you further refined the setup after you left Chrysler? Has your refined version ever been used on a vehicle, custom or production?
     
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