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Biting off way more than I can chew ...

Discussion in 'Repairs, Maintenance, Help' started by BlackSheep01, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. BlackSheep01

    BlackSheep01 Active Member

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    Can somebody recommend to me a good online -- even youtube, if I can get captions instead of rap music and ads for shop toys that depend on air, power or hydraulics, which I can neither afford nor pack in to the yard -- "how to" for pulling a Cummins out of a 2006 2500 pickup?

    I will have access to a crane and cart and wheelbarrow, and probably all the wrenches and cheater bars needful; should I carry in chisels, wire cutters, and hacksaws, or is there a better way to get that front frame crossmember below the radiator support out of the way? The plan is to avoid pulling off the head or oil pan, 'cause I'm afraid of contaminating the internals.

    How much trained adult help do I need to find?
     
  2. KOG

    KOG KOG

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    I've done that with an 04.5. That is one tight fit. When you say "crane" if you mean engine hoist it needs to be a stronger than car grade one as the 5.9 is HEAVY. Figure 1300lbs and you're close. HF has both a hoist and an engine stand which can support one, but there's not much capacity left over. You will require the leveler to use with the hoist so as to tilt the engine. I remember that we had to loosen the rear cab mounts and remove the bolts from the center and front mounts to tilt the front of the cab up. And it's still literally a squeeze to get that thing in or out. Also had the truck on a lift to get under it for pulling transmission, engine mounts, etc. As far as pulling the head or pan, that ain't easy either. Pan is nearly impossible with engine in frame, and head is very difficult, requires engine hoist as well so you have the right idea about having both of those in place when R&R engine. I had one helper on hand and you aren't likely to get by with less.

    It's not quite like the Ford where you have to remove the cab entirely to get to the engine, but it's close.
     
  3. sickboy

    sickboy Well-Known Member

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    The yard as in scrapyard? If it’s a professional facility, you may be better off paying them to pull it for you. By the time you amassed the tools needed, you’ll have spent as much anyway.
    best of luck anyway,
     
  4. 85lebaront2

    Level 2 Supporter

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    If the yard is not averse to it, I would cut out or remove everything in front probably including the bumper, that way the lift height needed to clear the frame is less. Engine leveler, the Harbor Freight and Northern Tool ones along with most you will find in parts stores will not handle the weight of the Cummins, particularly if it is still "dressed" with all accessories. Even with a leveler, you may have to pull it part way, block it, and re position the leveler due to the way the cowl and firewall overlap the engine and you may not be able to properly balance it to keep it level.

    Good luck, and be careful, a slight slip can cause major injuries dealing with that much weight. I agree with sickboy on having the yard pull it if possible.
     
  5. bguy

    bguy Well-Known Member

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    Bring something to roll the crane on if the lot is gravel.
     
  6. KOG

    KOG KOG

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    HF does have a crane and leveler that will handle the 5.9, but they aren't the cheap car engine grade ones. And your store may not have them in stock. I hadn't picked up on the "yard" and wasn't thinking about cutting everything away, but I certainly agree with that approach. That would let you pull the transmission with the engine in which case you want to use a crane in the yard because the total weight will be more than anybody's engine hoist or leveler will handle. Figure on closer to 1800lbs to be safe.
     
  7. BlackSheep01

    BlackSheep01 Active Member

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    Much obliged.

    I still need to "see" how it comes out -- looking at the truck it's going in, which has the fatally-injured 5.9 24-valve engine in place, I'm not making sense of how to shift these, never mind swap them out. I'm reasonably sure there are frame fasteners of some kind I can't see, somewhere, and maybe an engine mount I haven't visually located.

    I haven't seen the yard vehicle from which we should be obtaining the replacement engine yet, so maybe they've already removed that; if not, I don't want to render it something we have to pay for, if I can help it. Insofar as the cart, crane, and wheelbarrow, those are what the yard has for customers' use (and nope, you can't bring in your own, of those). I'm hoping it's at least a one-ton crane/hoist/cradle arrangement, but again, quien sabe? I've not been out there to pull anything bigger than miscellaneous plastic fasteners and control knobs.

    And I already know I'm going to want, but not be able to get, the front-end-loader a neighbor lent my SO back in the spring of '80 to pull the big-block 318 out of his '65 Fury ... have you ever seen a crankshaft come in two?
     
  8. KOG

    KOG KOG

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    Big block 318?

    I'd suggest not even thinking about a front end loader for this installation. You need much closer control than you can get that way.

    I have used a three point hitch boom when pulling the engine in my Case 580C backhoe. I happen to own a Deere 844J which gets used for all sorts of lifting at times (its real job is loading dump trucks with sand), but it's NOT suitable for a 5.9 install (not to mention that it's 30 miles from my home shop and WAAY to heavy to transport easily). I still have the three point hitch boom here and a MF 165 to use it with. I have a Bobcat T870 here with a boom. None of those are usable for this task.

    You might want to reread my post about how to do this. It's not a simple job. BTW, there are no hidden motor mounts, just two up front and the transmission mount. But everything is heavy and some things are not easy to reach. It's not like pulling a 283 out of an early 60s Chevy. Just reinstalling the various coolers up front and getting the plumbing run to them is quite a little chore in itself. Getting the starter in and out can require a 6 point swivel socket for one top bolt.

    And you will need a transmission jack. That thing is also HEAVY. And tightly fit into the chassis.

    If you don't have the FSM yet, GET ONE! You will need it. And a level concrete floor. If you don't have a lift to use along with the engine hoist this could be a very difficult job. Just the transmission R&R without a lift may be nearly impossible. There's quite a bit to do under the vehicle. Without the lift this could also be rather dangerous.

    Unless you have the proper really heavy duty engine hoist this falls into the "Don't try this at home" category. And you already know not to ask how I know this stuff, because I have done it. And really wouldn't want to do it again.
     
    #8 KOG, Feb 16, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
    Doug D and ImperialCrown like this.
  9. chuzz

    chuzz Well-Known Member

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    I've never been to a salvage yard that would let you bring in ANY kind of cutting tools or even jacks. I'm pretty sure that for a fee, the yard will pull the engine for you, but you'd definitely need to check first. Never assume anything with a salvage yard.
     
  10. KOG

    KOG KOG

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    That's for sure. I've seen drive in with your truck and any tools it will carry, to they pull it while you sit in the office, and everything in between.
     
  11. 85lebaront2

    Level 2 Supporter

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    Our local Pick-n-Pull (Virginia Beach) allows cutting tools including power (sawzall) but nothing with flames or spark generating. They have some pretty big rolling gantry rigs with chain falls. As far as handling the weight, my cherry picker from Advance Auto Parts will lift 2000 lbs at it's short setting, I do not know what my mid 70s Mac Tools engine leveler is rated for, but I have had everything from a 2.2L Chrysler to a full dressed 460 with a manual transmission flywheel and clutch on it and a couple of Jaguar engines, a 4.2L six and a 5.3L V12, also a complete Mercedes-Benz 300SD powertrain when I was working at the dealership.
     
  12. GLHS60

    GLHS60 Well-Known Member

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    Inaccurate but often used term when referring to a 318 Poly.

    Thanks
    Randy

     
  13. 68RT

    68RT Well-Known Member

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    At short setting, you probably cannot reach center of balance that will be needed. Unless it is extra tall, you will be reaching up just to accommodate the engine balancer.
     
  14. BlackSheep01

    BlackSheep01 Active Member

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    "Big Block 318" -- Common block with the 383, aka the Chrysler A318, polyspheric combustion chambers, but not the wedge-shaped heads. I call it that 'cause that's what my Dad taught me... I think the change happened in '67, but it might've been '68. The smallblock 318 is the same block as the 340/360 from '68-2002, or maybe '03; it's the LA engine / Magnum engine, and with the possible exception of the slant six, is the single most bulletproof motor Mopar ever built.

    This diesel engine swap is all in aid of Son2's 4x4 2500 new-to-him diesel five-speed pickup setting him afoot on a deer lease back in December ... and if everything goes right, me and one of my LA gas engines -- probably the V-10 'cause it's in the longbed pickup -- are going to be the transplant-transport team.
     
  15. 85lebaront2

    Level 2 Supporter

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    The "Big Block 318" shares nothing with the B or RB engines, it is more like the original Hemi and the old single rocker shaft engines. It is a rear distributor engine and if I remember correctly has the odd angle lifter bores to keep the pushrod angles relative to the lifters the same. Some engine rebuilders used to refer to it as a "wide block" and is an A block. The late 318 is the LA block and is trimmed down in size slightly.

    An interesting experience I had was a mid 70s Dodge van with the late 318, that needed a short block, the owner had installed it and it wouldn't run at all. He had it towed to me. I found that the rebuilder had installed a poly head cam in it. Found out that the truck blocks were so close to the old block that it had either been mis-tagged on the assembly line or just had the wrong cam.

    As far as a crank coming in two, I had an Oldsmobile Delta 88 with the 5.7L Diesel, it snapped a crank at the 4th main journal, made a hell of a racket but did still run. I thought it was the flex plate, those engines were famous for breaking the center out of one.
     
    #15 85lebaront2, Feb 17, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  16. KOG

    KOG KOG

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    The Jag V12 is as heavy as a 426 Hemi, the heaviest gas engines put in cars.
     
  17. 68RT

    68RT Well-Known Member

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    I see you have never pulled a Buick straight 8 or Packard flathead 8 for example.
     
  18. 68RT

    68RT Well-Known Member

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    An interesting limited production engine used in the Blitzenbenz weighs 895 lbs. And is only a 4 cylinder engine. It is, however, over 21 liters in displacement.
     
  19. BlackSheep01

    BlackSheep01 Active Member

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    ...I'm sorely, sorely tempted to pay the difference for one they pull. It's about a $1,500 up-charge...
     
  20. 85lebaront2

    Level 2 Supporter

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    I read somewhere that the Hudson Hornet 308 ci in-line flathead six is somewhere around 800 lbs. Many of those old engines are massive hunks of cast iron, early Hemis, Ford MEL engines to name a couple, then you had the Cadillac V16s, early ones (1930-1937) were a 45° OHV with manifolding on the outside, later ones (1938-1940) were 135° flat head with two carburetors. one for each 8 cyl V.
     

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