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Brakes

Discussion in 'A Body: Duster, Valiant, Dart, etc' started by ClayBelt40's, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. ClayBelt40's

    ClayBelt40's Member

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    A friend of mine got a 1969 Valiant for our next race car. The engine and everything runs fine, but as it was pulled out of a barn it had been in since 1996, we have no brakes at the moment. 4 wheel drum, manual brakes. Any suggestions on what we should look at/for when we try to get the brakes working? A booster is planned in the future, but I want to get it running at speed first, which will require brakes. I know that fluid will probably need to be changed, and that I will want to look at shoes and make sure the wheel cylinders aren't frozen, but is there anything else we should look for to get it braking decently?
     
    Volunteer likes this.
  2. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    You pretty much need to replace everything. Sorry that's not a lot of help, but master cylinder, wheel cylinders, all brake shoes, all soft lines, and refinish the drums, carefully inspect metal lines.
     
    pt006 likes this.
  3. 68RT

    68RT Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. If going fast, brakes must be something you don't want to worry about.
     
  4. Volunteer

    Volunteer Well-Known Member

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    You didn't state if car has 9 or 10-inch brakes as the latter would come with V8. As for (matter-of-factly) replacing all components, some may already be upgraded, so first thing is of course a visual inspection of all four assemblies. Make sure self-adjusters and related small parts are all freed-up as well. Of course if linings are bad, drums scored or rusty or fluid/grease contamination, these issues must be corrected. Then, if all looks 'secure' next step is to 'crack' all four bleeders and then push out old fluid and replace until clear at all wheels. Bleed each - some advocate longest line first but I have better success with shortest line and then work your way to longest as there is less chance of trapping some air upstream. But, first things, first. Nice car, by the way - good choice. :cool:
     
    #4 Volunteer, Sep 13, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  5. ClayBelt40's

    ClayBelt40's Member

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    It's a 225, so probably the 9's. Thanks for the advice
     
  6. Volunteer

    Volunteer Well-Known Member

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    So, what's the latest? I'm still with standard 9-inch drums but also hope to 'attach' a booster - once I learn about the possibilities. I do have some new (RockAuto) brake parts but no panic to install so may wait until next spring.
    How's the rest of the car? Structurally? Mechanically? Or, has it been stripped already to upgrade to 360, etc.?
    If so, I suppose a brake upgrade (to '73 and newer discs.) also planned?
     
    ClayBelt40's likes this.
  7. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    Does the brake bleeding sequence really matter? (at https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/27998/does-the-brake-bleeding-sequence-really-matter )
     
  8. ClayBelt40's

    ClayBelt40's Member

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    It's pretty sound, no rust somehow beyond the driver floorpan. Mechanically, we had a bad valve gasket seal and probably will find other engine issues, transmission and diff are sound. We are going to try leaving the brake system manual, may upgrade once we replace everything else in the system. Ended up with 4 frozen wheel cylinders, a broken drum, 3 useless drums, and a need for new brake shoes.
     
  9. Volunteer

    Volunteer Well-Known Member

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    Nice link, Bob, but inconclusive. The sketch is way out of whack since, in reality, we are dealing with two short lines into proportioning valve and three lines out (of course two fronts and one to rear) - where it splits at rear end housing (usually).
    I have tried both ways and see no difference, however, logic tells me to do the left/front first (the shortest) as any air in that short section get pushed out the bleeder (and replaced by clean fluid). Then, any air trapped in the right/front line will be pushed out next. There is almost zero chance of air remaining in the p-valve (unless trapped in short section between rear reservoir chamber and the p-valve, but, this air cannot enter into the front hydraulic circuits, unless, I suppose, something seriously wrong inside p-valve.
    Bleeding to the rear is next and that circuit, being longest, will require more of the clean fluid - which is easily noticed as it exits left/rear bleeder. That leaves the tributary to right/rear.
    It's always worked for me, but, in theory, I just do not see any potential faults by doing it either way - unless either the p-valve or, more likely, the master cyl. is defective. But, fresh fluid pushed down farthest line can 'isolate' dirty fluid in shorter lines - allowing for this dirty fluid to migrate into long, clean circuit.
    How many of us have bled all the air out of a system and pedal still feels soft, and either travels too far or 'creeps' down with foot on? Most times it is due to faulty (worn-out) master cyl. - where fluid intermixes past internal seals from one chamber to the other.
    Just remember to close all bleeders tight and have plenty of fluid on hand - and close that too, when not using.
     
    #9 Volunteer, Oct 11, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  10. ClayBelt40's

    ClayBelt40's Member

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    It's pretty sound, no rust somehow beyond the driver floorpan. Mechanically, we had a bad valve gasket seal and probably will find other engine issues, transmission and diff are sound. We are going to try leaving the brake system manual, may upgrade once we replace everything else in the system. Ended up with 4 frozen wheel cylinders, a broken drum, 3 useless drums, and a need for new brake shoes. Owner wants us to leave the drums, that was our plan as well, but we may sneak a booster in when he isn't looking.
     
  11. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    What's not inconclusive is that all car manufacturers and mechanics bleed starting from the furthest point to the closest, and there's a reason for it, as stated in the link. No reason not to follow the manufacturers' procedures, especially when the effort is the same.
     
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  12. Volunteer

    Volunteer Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate and acknowledge your wisdom and experience, Bob, however the 'general concensus' just seems illogical to me. Therefore, I will likely keep bleeding the wrong way and everyone else on the planet can bleed the right way. :)
     

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