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Brakes

Discussion in 'Dakota, 1998-2013 Durango and Aspen' started by Scrounge, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. Scrounge

    Scrounge Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I recall that Bob Lincoln posted a thread about replacing his front brake pads, and afterwards, they didn't work properly until he greased the pins. However, I can't find the thread. I'm having a similar problem, and I wonder what part he meant by the pins.
     
  2. Best Answer:
    Post #2 by Bob Lincoln, Nov 2, 2017
  3. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    Yes, I replaced mine in July, and used bearing grease, as I always had. At first they seemed to be binding on the caliper guide bolts, but I haven't gotten to fixing them yet in 3 months, and now they seem fine. However, I bought new bolts, and I'll be using proper silicone grease on them as soon as I get a chance to work on it, probably in about 10 days.
    The issue seemed to be that bearing grease is not the right lubricant, and it cokes up on the bolts.
     
  4. Scrounge

    Scrounge Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I'll try to look at them this weekend. I have some multi-purpose grease at the house, but don't know if it's silicone based. They seem to be acting like they're not power brakes.
     
  5. pt006

    pt006 Active Member

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    Just bought a large tube of brake lube made by Permatex. Purple in color. "ceramic brake lube". Claimed to be very high temp resistant and good for sliding surfaces and pins. $13.
     
  6. 1999 White C5 Coupe

    1999 White C5 Coupe Well-Known Member

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    Only use brake caliper / pin grease - do not use multi-purpose grease that is NOT designed specifically for brake use.
     
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  7. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    When you say they are acting like they are not power brakes - do you mean a hard pedal?
     
  8. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    He probably is experiencing what I am in my Daytona, and what we did with my wife's Camry when she had it. The car takes a long distance to stop, even at low speeds, as if it had air in the lines, but instead, normal pedal feel and smooth. The calipers had seized and the pads wore at an angle, cutting down to the metal and on one side, gouging the rotor with no noise. I have my Daytona off the road and will be inspecting it for this problem. It has 30K miles on the pads, and that's about the point where the Camry ruined its pads and rotors. Again, I had used wheel bearing grease on the caliper bolts on the Daytona. The Camry had been serviced by the dealer, and either they did what I did, or used no lube. I replaced the pads and rotors and all was well.

    I know they used no lube when I got the bill for their prior brake work.
     
  9. Scrounge

    Scrounge Well-Known Member

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    No. In the past, that indicated it was time to change the power booster. I don't think that's the problem, but I'll consider all of the arguments.

    This is much closer to what's happening. Not necessarily a long distance, but longer than before. When I replaced the pads and rotors earlier this year, both rotors were gouged on inside.

    The warnings have been received. I'm heading into Austin today, and will look for specifically brake grease.
     
  10. Scrounge

    Scrounge Well-Known Member

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    Bought a packet of silicone brake grease at O'Reilly, greased the pins and the slides, and am now returning from bleeding them at a friend's house. I also had to buy a spray can of brake cleaner. The brakes seem improved, though I'm hauling 2 lawn mowers, and trying to drive so that I don't make any sudden stops.
     
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  11. Scrounge

    Scrounge Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes, the brakes work when I push the pedal only a few inches, like power brakes should, but most of the time, the pedal doesn't work until it's pushed almost as far as it can go. Vacuum leak? Need more bleeding? Something else?
     
  12. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    Bleeding should result in a consistently solid pedal. How is it with engine off vs running?
    Are the flex hoses the originals?
     
  13. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    A vacuum leak means a hard pedal, you still have brakes but it takes lots of effort.

    A pedal with excessive travel means air in the system or a faulty master cylinder. Or some other problem with the hydraulic side of the system like poorly adjusted drum brakes, excessive wheel bearing slop on discs, etc.
     
  14. Scrounge

    Scrounge Well-Known Member

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    Engine off, pedal seems firm. I've not changed the flex hoses in the 3+ years I've owned the truck. My experience has been that the vehicle will pull to one side while braking in warmer weather when one of them goes bad. Perhaps they have other symptoms?

    When we bled the lines, that should have eliminated any air in them, but maybe not. The only air came from one of the rear lines. Faulty master cylinder or drum brakes out of adjustment is possible. I replaced the bearings when I replaced the rotors earlier this year.
     
  15. amclaussen

    amclaussen Member

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    Buy a little tube of "Ate" brand "Plasti- Lube" synthetic brake grease, it works properly for the lubrication of the sliding points in disc brakes.

    If the brakes are feelin like "not power brakes", then you have another problem. Lack of sliding pin lubrication mostly produces uneven wear of the pads; but lack of breaking power points to other different causes, like a lack of cleanliness of the disc surfaces (need to use PLENTY of hot water and dishwashing detergent to remove the protective coating of new discs, or grease/oily contamination of pads (should NEVER EVER touch the pads with bare hands, otherwise you need to clean the surfaces with acetone to remove skin oil), or the use of a too-hard pad composition, or the lack of a proper pad break-in. Latest better pads come treated as "Scorched", a thermal treatment that hughely reduces the need to "bead-in" pads, but still some is necessary. If you replaced new pads on a well used disc, the pad will need to be well worn to be able to conform to the uneven profile of a used disc. A complete check of the vacuum brake booster is in order, too. Amclaussen.
     
  16. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    I agree that uneven wear results from sticking caliper guides, but for my wife's Camry, the only symptom was excessive stopping distance. An inner pad was crumbling and down to the metal, the outer pad was worn at a 30-degree angle from front to back. So he may still have stuck caliper guides, but the only way to know is to dig into it.
     
  17. Scrounge

    Scrounge Well-Known Member

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    I replaced the pads when I replaced the rotors some time earlier this year. When I looked at the pads and rotors the other day, they seemed ok. The pins and slides definitely needed grease. But agreed, there seems to be another problem. And another symptom; while driving to the library, the brake pedal was up where it should be when I stopped to wait for a garbage truck to clear, but while stopped, the pedal gradually eased lower. I just checked under the hood, and didn't see any leaks from the master cylinder.
     
  18. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    Sounds like a master cylinder leaking internally.
     
  19. Scrounge

    Scrounge Well-Known Member

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    Had another problem to address: the idler pulley needed replacing. For the second time.

    When I checked the brake fluid level today, it was slightly lower on the side that goes to the rear brakes. I'll have to inspect those lines and the wheel cylinders during daylight hours.
     
  20. amclaussen

    amclaussen Member

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    A pedal that goes down should be an alarming symptom that must be taken seriously. While it is perfecty possible that a faulty seal in the pistons assembly of the master cylinder can by lifted by a small debris, and then cleared from the sealing lip sometimes, it most probably points out to a worn seal or a pitted cylinder surface, producing an internal by-pass or internal leak; and could result in a complete or almost complete brake failure. (I remember experimenting with partially disconnected brakes, in order to FEEL how much longer the braking distance goes when only two wheels do the braking: Believe me, it is way much longer than just twice!) ie: the dual Master cylinder is only partially better than the single one, and will only help when there is PLENTY of distance available, but not in a daily driving situation!.
    It matters little if the leak is on a wheel line, the brakes piping manifold or the master cylinderor wheel cylinder... A LEAK IS A LEAK, and given the very small volume of fluid, a dangerous situation develops quickly. Another fine point is that when the leak is inside the Master Cylinder or wheel cylinder, applying a heavy brake pedal pressure can sometimes re-seat the worn or faulty piston(s) seal, so that a false sense or correctness is felt, but with lesser pressure on the pedal it can go down again. Been there, done that. Amclaussen.
     
  21. Scrounge

    Scrounge Well-Known Member

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    The leak is in the left drum, probably from the wheel cylinder. Also, a piece broke, whether as a cause or a result of the leak, I don't know. According to the FSM, it looks like the parking brake strut. Since I'm away from home, I'll probably take this job to a local shop. The right side looks dry.
     

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