AF: Can Alfa Romeo be saved? | Page 7 | Allpar Forums
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Can Alfa Romeo be saved?

Discussion in 'Mopar News' started by Beentherebefore, Dec 28, 2019.

  1. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    2,840
    Likes:
    3,659
    One thing seems pretty clear at this point. There never really was any new product that was always right around the corner. I wonder if some of the ones in the know really knew there was nothing, or they were fed disinformation?
     
    Donte Lindsey and JavelinAMX like this.
  2. Ryan

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2016
    Messages:
    6,211
    Likes:
    10,527
    It's more likely that it was just around the corner and still is, but has just been through a bunch of delays.
     
    Tony K, page2171 and Dave Z like this.
  3. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
    Staff Member Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2001
    Messages:
    34,021
    Likes:
    18,768
    Lee Iacocca was decisive but once he made a decision, it stuck. Sometimes the decisions were stupid, or the markets changed, but morale shot up because if you were working on a K-car based limousine, by God, you would see a K-car based limousine on the street.

    Sergio Marchionne was decisive but kept revisiting decisions over and over. Sometimes the decisions were good, but if the markets changed, or if they seemed like they might change, or the numbers changed slightly, the project would be dropped or radically changed.

    Remember, by now, we should have had new L-cars for a year or three, essentially the LX design but with electronics and powertrain updates and the Maserati front suspension architecture. I think they would have done very well, but they were not “optimal,” as Giorgio apparently is. Nor did they help with the financiers' holy grail of cutting back on platforms (a fool's errand when you have Dodge, Jeep, and Ram to contend with on one side, and Fiat, Alfa Romeo, and Maserati on the other). Likewise the WK3 is dead and the Giorgio JGC is here. And we have no Grand Commander-based Journey replacement, though that might be a factory thing... though I thought the factories were able to do all sorts of things now...

    Things changed too much for us to actually see a lot of new product. Change is expensive. Indeed, if you look back at Chrysler 1960s-70s history, you'll see last-minute changes cost Chrysler millions and millions of dollars when they really couldn't afford it; indecisiveness and second-guessing helped bring the company down.

    No need for the GM merger theory. Occam’s Razor says it was Sergio being Sergio. Everything was put on hold to replace L-whatever and WK3 with Giorgio. $$$. Then the Wagoneer kept shifting around. $$$. And of course there was the factory dance. And who knows what effect the Caravan's continued mass production existence has on Windsor? Does the Journey have any impact on anything or would Toluca just be all Compass and Renegade without it?
     
    Mr. Fusion, hmk123, Tony K and 6 others like this.
  4. williev

    williev Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Messages:
    86
    Likes:
    36
    Hey Mr Source, do you think Mr Tavares have a keen interest in putting Chrysler brand back on track? I know he said he believes in the brands. Have you heard anything yet or is it still too early?
     
  5. williev

    williev Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Messages:
    86
    Likes:
    36
    Maybe, for crossovers, but not large cars. That is one of Chrysler’s strengths, it’s rear-drive platforms. They don’t need another large front drive platform.
     
    Adventurer55 and Donte Lindsey like this.
  6. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    2,840
    Likes:
    3,659
    While it may have been billions, there is still much work and much investment to be made to shore up North America. Ignoring the problem doesn't make the problems go away, they just keep getting larger and cost more.
     
    aldo90731 likes this.
  7. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2015
    Messages:
    4,745
    Likes:
    8,843
    I think indecisiveness definitely played a part in the delays as the plans for new product changed. The plant shuffle too. The lengthy search for a merger dance partner played a role too I think. Lots of reasons.

    Hopefully now that the merger is moving forward, or so it seems, that the product planning and production pipeline will not be so constipated. A product enema, so to speak. :D
     
    Mr. Fusion, cdjr77, Tony K and 3 others like this.
  8. CherokeeVision

    CherokeeVision Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    5,850
    Likes:
    2,741
    I liked the TourX but it didn't have enough horsepower. It would have made a nice replacement for our 09 Malibu. No, my wife doesn't want a CUV, SUV or minivan and a hatchback doesn't provide the passenger and cargo room at the same time.

    But anything, no matter how 'optimal' at the time can become the wrong thing if it takes too long to get it to market.
     
    page2171 likes this.
  9. Mr.Source

    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,741
    Likes:
    2,564
    Give them time
     
    HotCarNut and Tony K like this.
  10. Beentherebefore

    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Messages:
    5,553
    Likes:
    2,561
    Exactly!
     
  11. AlfaCuda

    AlfaCuda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,120
    Likes:
    1,248
    Way off topic
     
    Tony K and pumadog like this.
  12. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2015
    Messages:
    4,745
    Likes:
    8,843
    When are we ever ON topic?? :D

    DD077385-C073-45BD-9578-364C55374F5E.jpeg
     
    Chebby7, wtxiceman, Tony K and 6 others like this.
  13. Tony K

    Tony K Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2019
    Messages:
    549
    Likes:
    748
    NOTHING pretty clear about that at all. Absence of evidence IS NOT evidence of absence.[​IMG]"AND NOW BACK TO OUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED PROGRAMMING"
     
    Mr. Fusion, wtxiceman and Zagnut27 like this.
  14. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    2,840
    Likes:
    3,659
    Oh I'm sure there's evidence somewhere. It will appear at some point in the future. The truth always finds a way to bubble to the surface.
     
  15. hmk123

    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,998
    Likes:
    2,887
    Thank you for the great overview. You raise a lot of good points. Companies can for sure fall into the trap of chasing the market. You need some conviction. Question: was the Dart reasonably successful (financially)? I think the 200 was not. I wonder if those two created a culture of being too cautious.

    When Fiat came in around 2010 there were a lot of models updated with the little resources they had. That went a long way. When many new projects got cancelled they should have done the same one more time with cars like the 300 for example and maybe even the Journey.

    On an additional note: the current GC has been a fantastic vehicle. I hope they are getting the next one right again.

    Coming back to Alfa: at the Silicon Valley Auto Show Alfa had a Guilia driving simulator hooked up to a real car. However, why not an additional car for people to sit in? And why no Stelvio there? I know these shows are often dealer supplied. But the local dealer has plenty of inventory. And if Ford can bring a GT500 and a Mach-E, Dodge should have at least had a WideBody Charger there instead of showing 2019 models.
     
    #135 hmk123, Jan 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  16. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    2,840
    Likes:
    3,659
    That's what's been puzzling the last few years. The Ram and Jeep brand's people always seem to show the right vehicles at their places they show. It's like there's a different company involved when it comes to Dodge, Chrysler, and Alfa.
     
    HotCarNut likes this.
  17. Chase300

    Chase300 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    1,630
    Likes:
    1,548
    Maybe they have different marketing budgets?
     
  18. Deckard_Cain

    Deckard_Cain Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    953
    Likes:
    1,657
    Coming back on topic: what could be done to "save" Alfa Romeo. It's something that FCA consistently fails to do with all their brands.
    It's something that they should also do to "save" Chrysler, and Dodge. And that something is having a consistent cadence of product launches and refreshes instead of constant postponements and re-shuffling of plans.
    I think it would be interesting to compare Alfa to Genesis in terms of strategy and consistency of said strategy.

    The G70 came out a bit after the Giulia (and it took some design cues from it IMO). Sales of Genesis tanked when they shifted to their new strategy of making it an independent brand, and there are still challenges namely on the dealers that sell both Hyundais and Genesis. But in 2019 they already surpassed Alfa Romeo in the US.
    But do you see Hyundai withholding investments or reshuffling their plan? No. Since the G70 launched, they updated the G90 and already announced their full-size SUV, the GV80. They are also aggressively expanding the dealer network.

    Unfortunately, in Marchionne's FCA the strategy was:
    - Launch a model of a brand,
    - See how it is received by the market,
    - Invest in the launch of more models of successful brand,
    - Delay investment and launches of models of brands whose commercial performance does not meet expectations.

    The problem with this is that to re-launch a brand you can't do this. You need to develop a medium term plan and freaking. stick. to. it. Evaluate the performance at defined points of the project and adjust accordingly, but just don't shelve everything at the first hardship. Did you not account for worst-case, expected-case, best-case scenarios? Did they not have strategies defined for each of these scenarios?

    Hopefully things are different under Carlos Tavares. Because Alfa deserves a lot better. Chrysler deserves a lot better, and so does Dodge.
     
  19. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    3,024
    Likes:
    3,872
    Free cash flow...
     
    Tony K likes this.
  20. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2015
    Messages:
    4,745
    Likes:
    8,843
    Hopefully post-merger, the purse strings will be loosened and there will be more money available to invest in a lot of different areas.

    Going into a merger is like going to the bank for a mortgage...you comb your hair, put your best duds on, get all of your financial records in order, and don’t make any large purchases. Afterwards, once you no longer have the bean counters at the bank combing through your assssssssets....well, then you’re more free to pursue material goods.
     

Share This Page

Loading...
 We are not affiliated with FCA. We make no claims regarding validity or accuracy of information or advice. Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.