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Challenger & Charger to get Maserati Ghilbi platform in 2021

Discussion in 'Rumors and Speculation' started by Fast Eddie, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. DarkSky

    DarkSky Moderator
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    The Charger being a sedan is a prime example of that. People got over it, look how well it’s doing now.
     
    bluskye likes this.
  2. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Regarding the V10 ... if they can do a V8 with the same gut-wrenching low-end torque, I think it would be accepted. The question is not the specific technology, but the end result. Porsches have different numbers of cylinders, don’t they? They’re not all whatever the first Porsche was ... (I recall forced-induction fours being the usual, which may date me).

    Cherokee XJ was accepted as a full Jeep, but it wasn't body-on-frame, was it? It was true-blue AMC engineers who created the independent suspension Wrangler candidate, too...

    If I had to guess, I’d say Hemi + electric boost — that would be an interesting combo. Question is, if they could do a car that had all the performance characteristics of the original viper, but with an electric motor instead of v10, ... how wrong would that be? How about a supercharged v8 with an electric boost?
     
    bluskye, HEMI345, DarkSky and 2 others like this.
  3. somber

    somber 370,000 miles
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    I'm not so sure it's just the marketing. I don't think that explains the reason that it has such bad resale value vs. the Charger. I believe it's got something to do with how a new one looks so similar to much older ones.

    As an illustration of 300's huge depreciation - I've been looking hard at a beautiful 2016 300C with about 42K miles priced at $18,000. I believe that's less than half MSRP of a new 300C!
     
  4. DarkSky

    DarkSky Moderator
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    That seems strangely suspicious to me, both the low price and the relatively high mileage for a 2016. Could just be a great deal though!
     
    Cody's Car Conundrum likes this.
  5. Cody's Car Conundrum

    Cody's Car Conundrum Active Member

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    That's a really good point that I completely forgot to consider. Thanks for bringing it up (no sarcasm)! Honestly, I have no idea what would be the other contributing factors to the 300's low resale value (also, that's insane that you can get a 300C for 18 grand, I think I need to start doing some window shopping on Craigslist again). @aldo90731 would be able to give you a far better answer than I could.

    Another really good point! The only difference I feel is that the Charger was (and pretty much is) the only RWD, large, V8 family sedan you can actually afford. It's unique in its class. A V8 Viper would be less unique (in it's class) than a V10 Viper (purely because a lot of American performance cars have V8s). Not that it wouldn't be cool (and hearing a V8 with side pipes would be awesome), but every American performance vehicle has a V8 (outside of the new Ford GT). That would add just a smidge of commonality to the Viper (not that adding an automatic transmission wouldn't have done that anyway).

    Porsche only has flat sixes for the 911. They do have more engines for other models (that use their V8) but the V8 doesn't make it into the 911.

    Granted, I think that's more of a packaging thing than purism (that isn't to say Porsche would consider putting a V6 or a V8 into the 911 though). The Cayman/Boxter used to have a flat six too before they went to a turbocharged 4 cylinder boxer engined (that sounds a little bit like a Subaru). Here's the list of 911 engines: Flat Sixy: The Evolution of Porsche 911 Engine Size, Technology, and Output in the U.S. (at https://blog.caranddriver.com/flat-sixy-the-evolution-of-porsche-911-engine-size-technology-and-output-in-the-u-s/ )

    Fair point regarding Jeep.

    Do you mean a complete electric powertrain or a V8 and an electric powertrain? A Full electric powertrain would be sacrilege I imagine haha ("The Viper is conforming to society!"). Not to mention how bad a powertrain like that would be on a track day. Yes, I know only a small percentage of Viper owners actually track their cars. They are there though (look at Ralph for instance). An electric powertrain wouldn't have the range for a day of (in the hands of a capable driver) flat-out driving. Then imagine the time it would take to recharge the thing. Admittedly, I can't imagine what the track heat would do to the batteries.

    The Porsche 918 also has a hybrid "boost system" for it's V8. The downside to going this route is it kinda limits you to "hero laps" if you plan on going flat out. That's one of the advantages of not doing a hybrid sports/super/hypercar. You can go harder for longer without any (or minimal) drop off in performance. A Viper will be running at 645 HP for longer than a 918 will be at 887 HP because that 887 HP number is the combined outputs of the gasoline and hybrid motors. Once the hybrid loses its juice, you're stuck with (a still powerful) 608 HP. Of course, you can do the same thing just by making the car overheat but as long as the car doesn't overheat and you don't have any other problems you'll be fine. I'd suspect Dodge would probably just go the supercharged V8 route. A hybrid supercharged V8 would be interesting indeed but avoiding the hybrid system gives you the benefit of consistent power outputs for long periods of time (assuming everything goes right).

    I tend to disagree that the specific technology put into the car doesn't matter. Dodge was able to get away with having launch control, cruise control and adjustable suspension (not the ACR suspension, the GTS's 4-mode suspension). What else can they get away with though? You can only go so far before it becomes the techno overload of sports and supercars we know today. They could probably get away with an automatic. I'd suspect rear wheel steering wouldn't be much of a problem (to convince people it's not sacrilegious, not making the system itself work)....... I don't have any other ideas.
     
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  6. somber

    somber 370,000 miles
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    Actually, at the cargurus site I did a search and within 200 miles of my home there are six 2016 300Cs for less than $19K. They are all relatively high mileage, ranging from 38K to 52K miles. Lower mileage 2016 300Cs are listed also, but these are priced a couple thousand dollars higher.
     
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  7. aldo90731

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    There are several things that are likely impacting 300 vs Charger resale:
    1. While Charger got Demon, Hellcat and SRT, 300 has received very little of consequence. The most horsepower you can get on a 300 is 395; on a Charger is 800+
    2. For better or worse, FCA has articulated a brand vision for Dodge that is far clearer than that for Chrysler, helping resonate better, even if it is with a fringe of the market.
    3. Chrysler 300 is a head without a body. Chrysler lineup has more holes than products. 300 has no source of brand-loyal buyers besides existing 300 owners, and owners of dead Chrysler models. Having Journey, Durango, Challenger, Dart (?), help Dodge owners move within the franchise and stay with Dodge.
    4. Resale is boosted by customer retention, and returning customers care about the interior more because they are, by definition, very familiar with the interior. Chrysler’s rear seat has more headroom. But IMO, Charger’s interior was much better executed than 300’s since the current generation came out. Charger interior has more fluidity and purpose; 300 has that ungainly tumor in the middle of the dashboard.
     
    #87 aldo90731, Dec 18, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  8. T_690

    T_690 Active Member

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    HEMI will at least have BSG option if not more. That's 1/1.

    I'm more interested in something else. Will they ever switch to aluminium engine blocks for HEMI. It will bring weight down even if they add BSG 48V mild hybrid to it and it will help with weight balance on HEMI cars.
     
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  9. bluskye

    bluskye Member

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    I guess I must have been sleeping. I didn't know Charger got the Demon 800+ engine. I better pay more attention. ;)
     
  10. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    I only suggested hybrid as a way to boost the bottom end — a mild hybrid, so to speak — to get that V10 instant-on rush. The Hellcat's almost there, I suspect... (to be really clever it'd work on the front wheels for an easier launch, but then it couldn't really do anything else.)
     
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  11. Cody's Car Conundrum

    Cody's Car Conundrum Active Member

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    I bet you anything the V10 instant-on rush would be there with the H-Cat's supercharged V8 if the engine was in a lighter car (not to beat that dead horse all over again).
     

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