Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by 1999 White C5 Coupe, Jan 21, 2020.
Which 8 speed?
Actualy the six speed had plenty of range, it,s the new generation of tiny engines that benefit from the nine. With a 1.3 trying to push a decent size vehicle, the nine speed may be needed. A wider range CVT will be the ultimate answer. Lol
There are more reasons than may first be apparent for the "more gear" transmissions:
They can optimize performance and economy, but they also allow the engine management to more precisely control the RPM range where the engine spends most of its operating time - which can greatly aid in emissions reduction.
62TE: first, 4.13; sixth, 0.69
9-spd: first, 4.71; top, 0.48
Toy 8: first, 5.52; top, 0.67
(PS> The Toy eight-speed has a wider range than the ZF 8-speed.)
Six-speed was a massive improvement in range on the four-speed. People said it had too many gears back then.
By any chance, were these the same people who complained about the first automatic transmission in the '38 Oldsmobile, saying:
"Just one more gadget to break down"!
The 1974 Dart Sport had lot of those, too... oddly, as cars got more complex, they broke down less. To be fair, if the current ram engineers had to redesign the 1938 Oldsmobile (to 1938 specs), they could probably do it for half the cost and fifty times the reliability.
My opinion- its all about style. There is only so much a car does. Stop go turn. Only really have to do about 90 mph. So where’s the “wow”?
Where the presence? Bring me a modern delahaye. Pontoons and fenders. Finns. Not a warmed over Taurus
Some innovations are real, other are just gimmicks.
The automatic transmission was a real innovation. My dad tells me that shifting gears manually could be physically difficult in some in those older vehicles. His sister didn’t get her driver’s license until her husband got their first automatic transmission car.
The problem with the electronics in today’s vehicles is that, IMO, they are not as reliable as the mechanical components have replace.
When electronics started appearing in cars 40 years ago, one of the promised benefits was that because they have no moving parts, they would be cheaper to make and more reliable. But in today’s automobiles, electronic problems start from the day we drive the vehicle off the lot. So far all the issues I’ve encountered with my JL in the first 3,000 miles have all been electronic: blind spot monitors becoming disabled when the shaking starts off-road, disappearing and repairing backup camera lines. My Fiat 124 Spider has gradually lost the ability to stream music. I am sick and tired of troubleshooting the d*mn thing. I’ve got to the point that I don’t even turn the music on. I paid extra for that Bose audio I can’t even use. Is it a catastrophic failure? Certainly not. Is it an irritation? Hell yes!
Seems like automakers got the “cheaper” part right; the “reliable” part...not so much.
Continental was totally under-whelming in person. No presence or stance at all. It is a redone Fusion. One couldn't tell if it was a Continental or MKz thing.... Sad. Looked good on paper though...
A number of new vehicles have IC motors running with the Atkinson cycle. This limits the rpm range on the bottom end. The reason to run Atkinson cycle is for fuel economy. The drivability of such engines is horrible. One solution is electrify the drivetrain and let the electric motor smooth things out and provide power at the bottom end. A different solution is use a CVT and allow the engine to quickly get in the power band. I encounter this solution a lot in the rental fleet. The drivability reminds me of the emissions tuned carburetors in the 1970s. CVTs are a cheap and easy coverup for poor drivability which doesn't cover very well.
This weekends Rolex 24 (24 hr endurance race) was rather uneventful from a durability stand point. Not to long ago most race cars were babied and nursed to make it the full 24hrs. For the most part this has been less relevant and strategy more important. In my opinion for new cars there is just a LOT more components to possible go wrong these days.
The 62TE had a granny 1st gear that greatly improved launch. Especially noticeable in the heavier minivans.
People tend to like crisp (not harsh) shifts. The CVT felt like it was slipping (although it was not). It was just the ratio varying.
We are also used to cars shifting in steps. Not in a progressive 'slide'.
I'm loving the 9-speed behind the Pentastar. Power and economy in one.
The DDCT was awful, but it may return once the bugs are worked out.
When Neon went to the 4-speed automatic from the previous 3-speed, drivers complained about the shifting being too busy, especially in hilly areas. Lots of 4-3-4 shifting. With the torque converter lock-up, it felt even busier.
There was a TCM flash to help reduce the shift busyness.
I believe the Pacifica can go into and out of Atkinson.
You know better than to blame electronics in general. There are plenty of 200,000 mile cars with their original electronics. It's a matter of engineering and paying a little more to do it right.
Even my Dart hasn't had any problems with streaming. The 300C had the bluetooth module replaced at some point, but otherwise has been good for around 60,000 miles; it's never had a safety-system issue (blind spot monitor, rear cross path, front detection all standard). Indeed, the lifetime warranty is working out well for Chrysler so far.
I drove a rental Caravan with the 62TE and a 19 Cherokee with 2.4 9sp. While the Caravan was ok, the Cherokee was very lackluster and busy. It hunted for the right gear even on flat land. It seems 8 speeds are about right, my Charger rental was a flawless shifter. I see no reason for a 9th gear when it's never used. Not once even going downhill did the Cherokee shift into 9th.
The GSE engines are able to do that. I have no idea if the GME motors can. The Pacifica hybrids are Atkinson only. Electric motors cover a multitude of sins.
I must be conflating two things I vaguely remember.
Atkinson makes sense if you have electric motor. Adapting to what you have is hardly a sin.
I have never been a fan of CVT’s but I now own a 2017 Honda CRV with a 1.5T and a CVT it’s well tuned and drives quite nicely. Honda uses CVT’s on their 1.5T and other small NA drivetrains, a 10 speed AT on 2.0T and some V6 applications, 6 and 9 speed automatics on other V6 applications. A eCVT on Hybrids. I think maybe FCA/PSA should consider doing something similar in the future, for example team up a CVT with 1.3T and 1.5T drivetrains, 9speed AT on front wheel drive 2.0T and Pentastar V6, continue 8speed AT on rwd based cars and trucks. DCT’s and eCVT’s on Hybrids where appropriate. Like Honda, 6MT’s options where appropriate.
I'm sorry but I can only partially agree. As with most manufactured goods reliability comes down to engineering and cost.
I can tell you with absolute certainty that I do not for one second miss the mechanical carburetor as opposed to modern computer controlled fuel injection when it comes to reliability.
Also, let's use my 2011 Journey as an example in terms of electronic vs mechanical failures:
-Rear brake caliper seized: Mechanical failure
-All power steering lines blown in cold weather: Mechanical failure
-Viscous coupler failed locking AWD "always on": Mechanical failure
-Engine thermostat locked open: Mechanical failure
There's more but it's had so many problems that I've started to forget them all. The only electronic issue I've had with it is that the climate controls occasionally and randomly reset to factory default settings. It's more of a sometimes annoyance than a failure though.
I will agree that the issue with electronic features is that they become dated and may stop working with connected devices. My Journey's Uconnect 8.4 system hasn't been able to read music off my phone for at least 5 years now. The only way I use the music player is via USB stick or SD card.
I didn’t say the electronic problems on my Fiat Spider were FCA’s doing. In fact they are Mazda’s: the Spider electronics are lifted straight from Mazda’s corporate setup. Anyone used to UConnect will find Mazda’s system absolutely terrible and amateurish. My point is that automakers, in general, embraced electronics as a cost-effective means to replace mechanical parts, increase reliability and expand the features we get in today's vehicles. But so far the record is of glitch after glitch, often on items that didn’t use to break.