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Chrysler’s “Identity”

Discussion in 'Mopar News' started by 1999 White C5 Coupe, Jan 21, 2020.

  1. patfromigh

    patfromigh Well-Known Member

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    I was referring only to the lack of low end power with the Atkinson cycle. I'm extremely curious what will show up in the Wrangler PHEV. Might it be the Pacifica hybrid's V6?
     
  2. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Thing is, when my carburetor, platinum, distributor cap, wires or the spark plugs were acting up, I could go in there and try to fix it with a decent probability of success.

    When an electronic fails today, it throws an error code and more than half the time not even the dealers know what’s wrong.
     
    CherokeeVision likes this.
  3. Ruptured Duck

    Ruptured Duck Active Member

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    Had the opposite problem. My new JT U-connect would not recognize my older cell phone. Had to upgrade my phone so that I could stream.
     
  4. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    I do agree about Mazda. Indeed, I noted some of those issues in my review of the Mazda3 for allpar a couple of years ago.

    And today none of those things act up because you don't have a carburetor or distributor cap because of electronics, and you don't change your spark plugs every year because of electronics, and what the heck is a platinum?

    How often does fuel injection fail? You know that better than I do. In my experience, well, I had leaky injectors on my 1979 Rabbit so I couldn't pass inspection. That would be it for me. But I had to replace two carbs.

    Today it's not unusual to drive a car for eight years without a single stall or engine failure of any kind.

    In the good old days you'd tune twice a year, and you'd need to; and it took time and got you filthy. You'd have stalling that you might be able to deal with by tuning more often and lubricating your choke and this and that and the other thing. If the good old days were really old you'd be dealing with valve lash yourself instead of having hydraulic valves. Without electronic voltage regulators you'd be wandering from 12V to 15V and burning out your batteries. And when your engine died or started acting funny, you'd start troubleshooting everything, because there'd be no codes.

    Oh, and you'd be really happy with an 8-mpg car if it meant you could have, say, 300 net horsepower. Or you'd have a sports car like the original Fiat Spider which spent 90% of its time in a garage bay waiting for repairs, with laughably poor acceleration and not particularly good gas mileage, either, but never fear because in any crash you'd become paste.

    Again, I drive a '74 Valiant which already had numerous electronic gains - electronic ignition instead of points (more efficient, last nearly forever, if you carry a spare ballast resistor), for example; electronic voltage regulator; alternator. But it is unquestionably inferior, as a car, in performance and quality and maybe even longevity, to anything you can buy today.[/QUOTE]
     
  5. Powdered Toast Man

    Powdered Toast Man Move along, nothing to see here

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    It's interesting you mention that because getting a "tune up" (which was more involved than an oil change) was something you had to do at LEAST yearly. I don't think tune ups are even a thing anymore.

    And you're 100% right about the codes telling us what's actually wrong versus guess work. I recall a time when you'd have an issue and it could be either X, Y or Z. So you'd try replacing X, and if that didn't do it you'd do Y, and then you'd do Z. Sometimes it took hundreds of dollars in needless repairs to finally track down the problem.

    Two weeks ago my Journey suddenly threw a check engine light. Took it to the shop and the code said that the engine was running too cool. This pointed to the thermostat being faulty. Shop did the thermostat and the code hasn't been back. Also we now realize that yeah, the car was taking an awfully long time to heat up and the heater didn't seem to throw much head in the interior (it went so gradually we never noticed). Basically the onboard computer system keeps track of the engine operating temp over time and it knows that within a certain time the engine should be at X temperature. After it consistently failed to meet that threshold over time it threw a code.
     
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  6. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Twice a year, really, at least a minor carb tune. And many owners would be under the hood with each change in the weather to get the choke and idle just right. And the automatic chokes didn't work that well after a few years. My current car is the first I ever had with a fully functional automatic choke. It's a '74 but very low mileage.

    There are reasons why people would trade in every year.
     
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  7. patfromigh

    patfromigh Well-Known Member

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    I'm occasionally having stalls and hard starting with the leaned out econoboxes at work. Once they warm up they're OK, but it's like a bad dream from the 1970s.
     
  8. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    My pet frustration going into the dealership these days is that half the time the dealer is unable to replicate the problem. So they keep the vehicle for an entire day only to tell you at the end of the day that they did nothing to it.

    The other half the time they go and replace “modules” without really knowing if that’s the root cause of the problem. This procedure gets repeated several times through multiple visits, until eventually the problem gets resolved by a process of elimination.

    There really is no point in taking a vehicle to the dealership unless it has a near catastrophic failure that can be easily diagnosed by the dealer. That’s why I haven’t bothered taking the Spider for the audio system refusing to stream music, or the Wrangler for the self-defeating blind spot monitors. I would be embarking down a path filled in futility and frustration.

    FCA dealers are not the only ones doing this; apparently they all do. The catch is, survey data shows that FCA allows a greater proportion of its vehicles to leave the plants with these niggling issues, fostering the opportunity to balloon into an endless source of irritation for customers.
     
  9. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Stalls are bad... if you want 'em fixed, complain to NHTSA! That'll get fast action.

    Re the dealers not being able to resolve problems, well, I remember that happening in the 1980s (on 1970s cars) just as often. And they'd tear out Chrysler electronic ignition brains instead of replacing ballast resistors.

    I've had one problem with the electronics of our cars, and I filmed it happening because it was indeed sporadic. They replaced the part based on seeing the video. But you need a good dealer.
     
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  10. Tony K

    Tony K Active Member

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    Some of that is on dealers. They want to make money on the repair shop, but they don't pay their techs well enough to keep them. In my case, the codes relate to an intermittent ETC issue on a vehicle most dealers don't know how to work on (WK CRD) so I have to run it to a local Sprinter mechanic.
     
  11. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    But a lot of it is still on FCA. I'm sure the diagnostics time allotted for an any problem diagnosis is very small.
    If the diagnostic takes too long, the tech loses money and the dealer loses money. And the customer loses patience with the "not able to replicate" diagnosis.
    I'll give the dealer credit, they were able to fix the intermittent (but becoming more common) audio system failure although it did take three visits (two with rental cars). But, alas, they were unable to smooth out the 9 speed shifting problem (it likely needs new software and there was none) and provided a well above average deal to trade it in.
     
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  12. Doug D

    Doug D Virginia Gentleman

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    My first car, a 1968 Camaro w/327 V8, needed new points/condenser as well as new spark plugs every year. Then, of course, the timing (always a pain) had to be set. My more recent vehicles from 1986 on were relatively easy - just needed to change the spark plugs as they all had electronic ignitions of some sort. The '00 T&C Ltd we had went 148K miles/ 7 years before I had the spark plugs, air filter, fuel filter, O2 sensor, and serpentine belt serviced. My Ram only needs the spark plugs (copper) changed every 30K miles, but as it takes 3-4 hours to change them I usually don't service them until 100K miles.
     
  13. Chase300

    Chase300 Well-Known Member

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    100K??? Wow.
    I've run the coppers in my Hemi 50K between changing, but even by then the gap is getting pretty large. Can't imagine going 100K..especially seeing they are inexpensive compared to Platinum or Iridium.
     
  14. Doug D

    Doug D Virginia Gentleman

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    It's not the cost, but the time it takes for me to replace them. On average at least 2.5-3 hours. I could probably do it faster if I didn't take so many beer breaks. LOL!
    The worst ones are the back 4 plugs on the driver's side underneath the brake booster. Pretty much working blind to loosen the bolts that hold the coil-on-plug to the valve cover. Then there is just enough room to get the plug socket w/swivel and a 3" extension into each plug hole. Those 4 plugs probably took at least an hour by themselves. On the passenger side I found it helpful to remove the air filter assembly to have easier access.
     
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  15. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Both my 2005 300c at 125k miles and my 2007 Magnum at 135k had the original plugs in the it Hemis when I first serviced them. The Magnum was a fleet (police) car and the 300c had been dealer maintained when I bought it. I was really surprised. Magnum idled a little smoother afterwards but they both ran great on the old plugs.
     
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  16. AmbassadorSST

    AmbassadorSST Active Member

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    Volvo wouldn't be a bad brand for Chrysler to emulate. Or maybe slot Chrysler between Volvo and Subaru...offer AWD standard on all future Chrysler vehicles?
     
  17. Powdered Toast Man

    Powdered Toast Man Move along, nothing to see here

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    My first car was a 1980 Mercury Cougar with the 255 V8. That was possibly the worst engine Ford ever built. I was constantly having to adjust and tune the carburetor (and even replaced it) to try and avoid stalling at idle. I had to drive it with two feet and hold the gas down a little with the brakes at full stop to prevent it from stalling because once it did it often wouldn't restart. That car also had near constant electrical issues. I replaced the distributor cap, the solenoid, and the plugs had to be changed pretty much yearly. The car was leaking profusely from every seal and it finally died when after the last time I drove it when I had to stop every 3 miles to put another quart of oil into it as it was dumping it almost immediately.

    My Journey is now older than that Cougar was when my dad bought it used. Even the issues I've had with the Journey pale in comparison to what that Cougar put us through.

    Oh, and while we are on the subject of electronic components, that Cougar was RWD and was a NIGHTMARE to drive in the winter (I still vividly recall spinning through an underpass when the back end broke loose for absolutely no reason whatsoever). When I had my 08 Magnum, it was absolutely FINE in the winter due to the electronic traction and stability control.
     
  18. Donte Lindsey

    Donte Lindsey Active Member

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    I think that was route they were going for at one time. Hence why the 200 and 300 had it as an offering. Even the Sebring came with the option. They need one good direction for this brand.
     
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  19. Panterasr9

    Panterasr9 Active Member

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    It would be nice to see a luxury line that didnt beat you up on price. Or let it be the hotbed for smooth driving hybrid and electric luxury. Let Dodge continue the performance legacy and chrysler be the innovative luxury line.
     
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  20. svevar

    svevar Well-Known Member

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    No Sebring (sedan, coupe, or convertible) offered AWD. That option debuted with second-generation 200, and was fairly unusual for the time. Now it seems most players still standing in midsize market offer AWD.
     

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