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Civil COVID-19 Discussion

Discussion in 'Off Topic But Still Civil' started by Ryan, Apr 23, 2020.

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  1. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    COVID-19 patients hospitalized.

    note: an IRCCS (Istituto di Ricovero e Cura a Carattere Scientifico) in Italy it is biomedical institutions of relevant national interest, which drive clinical assistance but also makes associated research activities.

    “In Pavia, a post-Covid clinic, dedicated to patients discharged by the IRCCS Policlinico San Matteo Foundation, has already been active since 27 April – adds Corsico – patients undergo chest X-rays, respiratory function tests, 6 minutes, thoracic and cardiac ultrasound and, if necessary, a thoracic CT scan to investigate the presence of diffuse interstitial lung disease or pulmonary embolism. Preliminary data seem to confirm the first Chinese observations on Covid-19: unfortunately, several discharged patients still have chronic respiratory failure, fibrotic outcomes and dystrophic blisters. It is therefore necessary to follow them carefully and above all to include them in adequate pulmonary rehabilitation programs “.

    "30% of those cured of Coronavirus will have irreversible lung damage"
    30% of those cured of Coronavirus will have irreversible lung damage | News1 English (at https://www.news1.news/en/2020/05/30-of-those-cured-of-coronavirus-will-have-irreversible-lung-damage.html )
     
    #541 MJAB, May 26, 2020
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
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  2. jerseyjoe

    jerseyjoe Plymouth Makes It

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    I had to fast foward to today. The condition of the atmosphere here kept a lot of people home including us. The hotel @ Wildwood Beach front offered a choice of a different weekend or a refund. After a difficult discussion we decided the crystal ball was cloudy so refund was the best choice. Prime time in the summer is expen$ive. People were mostly behaving around here (to my surprise) I think the cloudy, damp cool weather helped. Still some gatherings had clusters of people who were face to face without masks. Local cigar bar had the long lost crowd of people and pickups gathering around the outdoor smoking table. Still clusters of youth on the beach. Wish them all well. Our township came up with the idea of having drive in movies at a very large park in our area. Will be interesting to see if there is a burst of newborns in 9 months. Acually some of the old drivein lots have not been developed, this is an oppertunity for a developer to step in. Most old driveins were dirt and stone, some paved, wish I had the bucks. Rt 35 had the Circus drive in resteraunt, last time in that area the sign was still there on an empty paved lot. Imagine masked carhops on skates serving meals. Maybe there are better things to come if we learn how to "Work Together".
     
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  3. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

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    This is what I’ve been hearing as well. We won’t know what the long term effects of this pandemic are for the patients who survived, and not just the ones with serious cases. The virus can instigate a whole host of issues related to the infection itself and the body’s reaction to the infection. From respiratory issues as described in the article you posted, to stress cardiomyopathy related to the release of catecholamines, to inflammation of the heart tissue itself (myocarditis and endocarditis). Some of it is reversible once the infection clears, but it depends on the length and severity of infection. Viral cardiomyopathy can lead to severe heart failure and eventually heart transplant, mechanical support (LVAD) or death (or all of those). The kidneys and liver can also be affected. And if someone has underlying heart, kidney, and/or liver disease, a viral infection can exacerbate that disease and potentially lead to more rapid progression and worse outcomes.

    I’ve seen patients with viral cardiomyopathy suffer an EF (ejection fraction) drop to 5-10% (normal is 50-70) and require mechanical support with an LVAD and with medications, and their EF recovered to the point where we could remove the LVAD. And I’ve seen some where their function never improved much and they either kept their LVAD or were listed for transplant. It’s not guaranteed that the heart will recover with support, much less on its own, especially if there are other comorbidities. Age is a factor too. So how many patients with scarred lungs will end up on supplemental oxygen or eventually deteriorate to the point of requiring lung transplant (assuming they are a candidate)?

    And there have been younger, healthy patients who had very mild cases of infection and they’ve developed massive blood clots in their aortas or have had CVA’s.

    I’ve said before that people make too much out of the death count. Those who have been sick with this virus and survived may be experiencing issues for months, years, or for the rest of their lives. That will lead to massive healthcare costs for them, especially with many being out of work. Thankfully pre-existing conditions isn’t a problem for getting insurance now when they find new jobs...at least it’s not a problem currently.
     
  4. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Gee, and today I read that the death count was overinflated and the death rate is less than 0.26%, and there are no long term consequences.

    I think I'll believe you... I've read similar notes from doctors and researchers from more credible sources.

    As a side note, I find this scary and yet unsurprising:

    US poll says only 1 in 4 Republican voters disbelieve Bill Gates coronavirus conspiracy | ZDNet (at https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-poll-says-only-1-in-4-republican-voters-disbelieve-bill-gates-coronavirus-conspiracy/#ftag=CAD-03-10abf5f )

    “Most likely to answer positively to the question "Bill Gates wants to use a mass vaccination campaign against COVID-19 to implant microchips in people that would be used to track people with a digital ID" were those that watched Fox News for their TV news at 50%, followed by Republicans and those who voted for Trump on 44%.”

    I realize it's that's on the political side, and I only bring it up because it may help to explain Iceman’s refusal to concede anything to reality. There's also a very clear indication that we will have major problems trying to move forward as time goes on, including getting everyone vaccinated, because fairy tales are dominating a large portion of citizens.
     
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  5. jerseyjoe

    jerseyjoe Plymouth Makes It

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    I'm looking at the situation here, instead of a political football people should start setting them selves up for the coming recovery and a way to make things easier. The issues are not stone walls but more like streams that need to be safely crossed by all.

    JerseyJoe the philosopher.
     
  6. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    We are about to hit 100,000 casualties, quite a few days before June 1st.

    IMO we need to be thinking ahead how we deal with this when it comes back in the fall. For a multitude of reasons, there’s no appetite for another widespread lockdown. Okay, then what...?

    The WHO is already warning that infection rates are spiking in Latin America as they enter their winter months. So it is not a matter of if but when it returns, so what’s the plan...? Another widespread lockdown? More international travel bans? A few more trillions in stimulus? What...? [crickets].

    Those businesses that survived this round, will they survive a second wave...?

    Besides wishes for a vaccine, I don’t hear anything concrete.
     
    #546 aldo90731, May 26, 2020
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
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  7. Ryan

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    I would be shocked if there are major, sweeping restrictions when this comes back around. They'd better be working constantly on getting equipment to hospitals in the meantime so the healthcare system can be prepared to handle a big spike in cases.
     
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  8. dana44

    Ad-Free Member

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    Well, old Bill Gates has a lot of money and gives a whole lot to the WHO and all that, and although I don't believe he would be able to pull something like this off, Bill said this is what he wanted to do, not some conspiracy made up by who knows who.

    As far as inflated numbers go, there is a family suing a hospital here in San Diego because it was said their family member had died of coronavirus vice heart disease and wanted it corrected.

    There was also a couple back East somewhere that had been self-quarantining for about five weeks when the husband pissed off the wife so badly she hit him over the head with a cast iron skillet, cracking his skull and killing him. She called the cops, got the body taken away, and when she got the death certificate, it said, "Coronavirus Covid-19 related death."

    The first one isn't a joke, the second one, I think, is.
     
  9. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    I think most states have learned their lessons with ventilators and PPEs.

    Meanwhile, a number of states, counties, municipalities, and school districts are planning to cut budgets and layoff emergency responders and other staff as a result of the financial strain from battling the pandemic. This would not only add to the misery already out there, but could potentially complicate authorities’ response when the next wave hits.
     
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  10. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    For better or worse, Sweden had a plan of action and implemented it. Germany and South Korea had a plan of action and implemented it. Even China had a plan of action; however draconian it may have been, and implemented it. Where China failed was in how to handle the start of the outbreak, and the international response. But once it set down a path, it implemented it.

    We are missing our own plan of action. Every step taken so far has been a reaction to the latest set of information —or, often times, disinformation. And the casualties numbers show it.

    I still don’t feel reassured that anyone, from either party, is thinking ahead on how to deal with the next wave in a cohesive, congruent manner. And the looming election is clearly not helping get our elected officials to focus.
     
  11. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

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    The only thing I’m aware that the Gates foundation was advocating was putting invisible dye on people’s skin that would provide a vaccine history in developing countries. I don’t know if he or his foundation has ever been an advocate of implanting RFID chips for medical information. Injecting such chips via a vaccine needle would be impossible because of the gauge of the needles is too small to allow something of that size to pass through. It would essentially have to be microscopic, and chips aren’t anywhere near that size. Could they be in the future? Who knows. If you have a link to information shoeing he’s advocated microchipping individuals, please post, as I didn’t see any in a brief search.

    Hospitals better be careful in how they list medical diagnoses and causes of death in the medical record, There are typically personnel from coding and utilization who review the charts and they ask the docs to list a diagnosis that’s supported by their documentation. They don’t want the hospital to get in trouble with the Center for Medicare & Medicaid Services or other federal or state agencies. It could be considered fraud, and it’s something they take seriously. There may be confusion with how state health departments report Covid deaths though, because every state seems to do it differently and that speaks to the lack of clear guidance from the fed level.
     
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  12. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

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    Don’t be so sure. If there is another big spike in the fall, it would be hitting at the same time as flu season. If it’s a moderate to bad flu season, adding a bunch of Covid patients on top of that could quickly overwhelm a lot of hospitals. Remember, a lot of the same PPE used for Covid patients is also used for patients with influenza. Both drain a lot of resources. And we can’t stockpile supplies because we’re still treating lots of Covid patients...though our numbers are decreasing or holding steady statewide.

    That being said, I have no idea if people would go along with restrictions again. They’ve been resistant under the worst conditions already, I’m doubting they’d be up for more in the future.
     
    #552 Zagnut27, May 26, 2020
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
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  13. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    Death certificates have fields for pre-existing conditions related to the death, in order of influence/relevance, and another section for listing conditions even if not related to the cause of death. This is why covid-19 gets "listed on a death certificate", and people think there's a conspiracy or fudging the numbers. In actuality, it doesn't mean it's counted as a covid-19 death, depending on where it's listed under causes, but some people look for corruption or intrigue that isn't there.
    My mother died of colon cancer, but her death certificate listed that below the primary cause of renal failure. She didn't die of kidney disease, she died of cancer. The doctor advised us that the cancer may have spread to her kidneys, they were failing, and that that was a less painful and more peaceful passing, not to treat that.
    My dad died of amyloidosis, an autoimmune disease. That's listed as the primary cause, but it damaged his kidneys, and he opted near the end to go into hospice and stop dialysis. "End stage renal failure" is listed as a secondary cause.
     
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  14. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

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    Yes, well said.
     
  15. DC-93

    DC-93 Well-Known Member

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    You were gone??
    :rolleyes:
     
  16. DC-93

    DC-93 Well-Known Member

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    Gates can track me.
    I have nothing to hide.
    He’d get bored.
    :):):)
     
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  17. DC-93

    DC-93 Well-Known Member

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    It’ll be interesting to see if cases rise after Memorial Day.
    Give it a couple of weeks.
     
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  18. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

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    Yeah. Aside from going to and from work, and the kids childcare facility, I don’t go anywhere else. Oh, and Acme & Walmart. And Allpar...Bill might learn a few things about Mopars by tracking me. :D
     
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  19. Doug D

    Doug D Virginia Gentleman

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    My travels have basically been transporting my daughter to work 1 mile away, to the grocery store (1 mile) or Walmart (1 mile) or to the dump (15 miles). Pretty sad when my longest trip is to the dump. :confused: Hard to justify going anywhere else when not much has been allowed to or chose to open.
     
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  20. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

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    I need to make some trips to the recycling center. We’ve got bags and bags of styrofoam packing piling up in our garage that I need to take over there. I can at least put the cardboard out at the curb for recycling with our trash company. For stuff like this, I really miss my Liberty. There isn’t much cargo room in any of our other vehicles. I’m dreading putting our big dogs (Rottweiler mixes) in the Encore when they’re due to go to the vet. I’ll have to grease them up to get them in & out. :D
     
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