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Clean slate for Merger:GM considers killing "Malibu"/LaCrosse/Impala/XTS/Sonic/Spark-Korea

Discussion in 'Mopar News' started by Alexbucks, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator
    Level III Supporter

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    What’s done is done. We can’t get live off the emotion created by Sergio’comments either. Time has past and time heals all wounds.

    Even without Sergio’s comments the 200 and Dart were not going to be class sales leaders no matter how much emotion we have toward the need for sedan production.

    Should he have made the comments he made? No, of course not. That does not mean dropping the production of those vehicles to facilitate the plant shuffle was a bad move either.

    Mike
     
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  2. Deckard_Cain

    Deckard_Cain Active Member

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    Oh, I comprehend the substance of the post. I comprehended that 6 months ago, right now you just sound like a broken record.
    And "Mergionne" was wise enough to get out of a segment where plenty of brands with better cars than the 200 or Dart were (or at least are perceived as being better) are seeing losses that go to 30% of their volume.

    Did you ever consider that maybe, just maybe they actually considered all possibilities and this was the best option? Maybe not. Or maybe you're too emotional to admit it.
    Move on. Stop trying to inject this into every topic.


    As for your insinuation that FCA is just seeing a sales increase because of big incentives on the 300 and Charger, Mike V. already showed the incentives from GM and Ford. They're even higher for their full size cars than the Charger and 300. So tell me again how FCA is using enormous incentives to move cars please.
    Because it does not add up. GM, Ford, BMW and Mercedes are using higher incentives.

    And even if they use incentives, the US market is in a downturn. What do you defend? That they do not use incentives when every other manufacturer is using them? Because if they did that I'm sure you would be the first here crying wolf, that FCA wasn't pushing the Charger and 300 hard enough, that they were preparing to discontinue them like they did with the 200 and Dart, etc, etc.

    So they're pushing the cars into people's hands. That's what you wanted them to do with the 200 and Dart. To eat a loss, or have razor thin margins to keep cars that damaged the brand perception of both Chrysler and Dodge.
     
    #302 Deckard_Cain, Aug 3, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
  3. CherokeeVision

    CherokeeVision Well-Known Member

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    I realized I have to find another model that has a similar rear end treatment to the three I mentioned.
    Bertha had three sisters. I left out Bella.

    Jimmy Castor - Bertha Butt Boogie.
     
  4. patfromigh

    patfromigh Well-Known Member

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    Ford did the same thing with the Five Hundred and lost big. Ford changed the styling for their product much more than FCA did. I wasn't suggesting there weren't any improvements. The across the board suspension and interior improvements was definitely a win. The Pentastar V6 and new transmissions closed the perception gap between the base and premium LX trim levels.

    Ford also put a new V6 and transmission when they badge engineered the Taurus. They did have the AWD SHO model, but the large fwd based Fords lack the aura of the LX models. Ralph Gilles was given a lot of clout by Sergio, so maybe that kept someone from attacking the 300 and Charger with an ugly stick. The Five Hundred was styled by J. Mays. I don't know how long he stayed around after Mullally moved in.
     
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  5. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
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    Well some of them still do...

    CTS = Catera Touring Sedan
    DTS = Deville Touring Sedan
    ATS = Alpha (platform name) Touring Sedan
    CT6 = Cadillac Touring 6 (6 is because it fits in the 6 class of cars like BMW 6-Series and Audi A6)
    ------

    Old names

    ELR = Electric Long Range
    XLR = Xtra Luxury Roadster
    STS = Seville Touring Sedan


    Lincoln has recognized that names are important and are bring full names back like they did with the Continental.
     
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  6. Chase300

    Chase300 Active Member

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    More than that...there was no room given the huge size of the Taurus compared to the 300 for example. I test drove a SHO and jumping back into my 300C made it clear how much better the 300 was and not just room, but overall comfort and ease of use. Things are just easier to operate in a 300 and even something simple like the gauges are easily seen and not blocked from view like in the SHO. Main issue was the huge center console which required your knee to rest on while driving. Deal breaker right there.
    The Impala while tons of room is still FWD dynamics and the big issue with it is the heavily sloped rear window. If you are in a rain storm, in city or stop and go traffic its virtually impossible to see out of the rear.
     
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  7. AlfaCuda

    AlfaCuda Active Member

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    In fact I was a little disappointed when the 200 was first revealed as I had hoped for a more upright imposing style akin to the 300. Economic realities apart it would have stood out from the boring crowd.
     
  8. Erik Latranyi

    Level III Supporter

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    Much of the design and engineering for the 200C was completed by the time of the bankruptcy. It would have been built at Brampton alongside the 300, Charger and Challenger, not taking up production capacity and allowing FCA to stay in the mid-size market with a RWD/AWD unique offering.
     
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  9. Deckard_Cain

    Deckard_Cain Active Member

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    I think a big reason for the 200 design was to easily badge it as a Lancia in Europe. But then the midsize sedan market in Europe stopped making sense and Lancia was extremely unsuccessful outside of Europe.
    When they eventually release smaller sedans for Dodge Chrysler, I hope they evolve the 300 and Charger styling language. It completely sets them apart from the competition.
     
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  10. DAGAR

    DAGAR Active Member

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    Agree, Erik, but weren't there issues with safety (namely crash test) standards for the originally shown 200? I could be wrong about that, but I recall that being an issues sue to the smaller size of the vehicle along with the longitudinal engine rear drive format and that it was going to take some heavy re-engineering. I believe that's the decision point where it was decided to instead invest in a vehicle that could be used globally, not just in North America. Indeed a decision that was later regretted by Sergio and gang. Despite the poor way in which Sergio criticized the product when pulling it at least he acknowledge that the decision to introduce it in the first place was a poor one. That was definitely a missed opportunity and one I hope they can address in the future through a Giorgio derivative.
     
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  11. unverferth

    unverferth Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree. We don't need 'me too' designs. 300 and Charger are definitely not 'me too'.
     
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