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Compass Trailhawk VS Renegade Trailhawk:

Discussion in 'Mopar News' started by redriderbob, Nov 26, 2017.

  1. aldo90731

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    I am not saying anyone should go to Toyota or Honda. With the ongoing argument that 90% of Renegade and Compass owners never plan to go offroad, I am simply trying to objectively understand why anyone would want to buy a Jeep to go to the mall, to the office, or, at most, to the ski slopes, when anyone can do that more reliably in a Toyota or a Honda and, in many people’s minds, more safely, and more cheaply —as Toyotas and Hondas hold their value better.

    You are correct, though: simply because of the Jeep “image”.

    The thing FCA, and we on here need to be clear on, though, is that selling “lesser” products purely on “image” takes equity away from the brand, much like withdrawing cash from an ATM. And it is precisely this drain in equity, the “slippery slope” that years ago Norm warned us about on the DOJ thread.

    The relationship between Dart and Demon is not the same as that between Wrangler and “lesser” Jeeps. For starters, Demon hasn’t been in production for 75 uninterrupted years; Demon is not credited with having started the Dodge brand or having help won a world war, and Dodge doesn’t sell 200,000 Demons a year. Also, Dodge is not slapping “Track Rated” badges on Darts and Journeys, Dodge is not plastering little Demon silhouettes on Darts and Journeys, and Dart and Journey surely don’t pretend to be the fastest cars “in their class”. If Dodge did any of these, you better believe everyone would be comparing Darts and Journeys agaisnt Demon, however unfair we thought that was.

    If we are fine with FCA exploiting Wrangler’s image to sell CUVs, then we should be fine that people compare those CUVs against Wrangler.
     
    #61 aldo90731, Nov 28, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  2. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic
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    I think we’re over thinking this a bit. These vehicles are not Wranglers, nor are they intended to be. They have pretty good capability considering what they are. And if folks find them lacking in capability for what they need/want, they can always purchase a Wrangler. Now it would be nice if Jeep offered Wrangler-level capability in other vehicles in the lineup as well (more creature comforts, cargo room, etc)...but I digress. As far as image, well with these vehicles you’re getting a certain level of Jeep capability...and that all stems from Wrangler...so I don’t see anything wrong with the little Easter eggs and paying homage. To each their own.

    Just watched this video showing a Renegade Trailhawk and a Subaru Crosstrek taking the same trail at the same time. The Suabaru does everything the Renegade does, and looks more comfortable doing it. Granted they had to remove some parts of the snout to do it.... I’m not so sure Jeep can claim “class leading” capability...granted this is just one video...but it’s clear others have capability too.


    View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d75Q0xVvBjU
     
  3. aldo90731

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    There’s a significant difference between Jeep and Subaru, and it is this:

    Subaru is building a strong, multi-faceted value proposition on a reputation for outstanding durability, safety, capability and resale, and is applying these characteristics to every new vehicle they launch. And the Subaru Love campaign is helping mainstream consumers pay attention.

    Jeep is recycling its well-establish off-road reputation, and the image that has created over 75 years, by establishing connections, however tenuous they may be, to new products being launched. Jeep is not expanding its brand reputation into other key consumer areas like reliability, safety and efficiency, beyond the basic expectations in each segment.

    The proof is in the pudding: Subaru has been the fastest growing brand since the Great Recession, without resorting to incentives, and maintaining its vaunted customer loyalty and resale values.
     
    #63 aldo90731, Nov 28, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  4. aldo90731

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    Sorry, that’s a distinction without a difference. The military Jeep became CJ in civilian use, which eventually became “Wrangler.”

    Besides, in 2010 Marchionne went on the record stating publicly that the Jeep brand would be “anchored” on Wrangler, and FCA has been doing so ever since.
     
    #64 aldo90731, Nov 28, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
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  5. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    The photo I posted is not some photo of two vehicles put together by a magazine or private person.
    In Jeep Renegade launch was used the original military "Jeep".

    The reason is very simple since if You show the military Jeep most people would recognize it is as "Jeep".
    Outside U.S.A. for the name "Wrangler" is known by less people than one could image.



    In FCA presentation (Investors day an others) the Jeep range has two family of products, one being the Wrangler, the offroaders, and the SUVs on the other family.
     
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  6. suzq044

    suzq044 Resident Photoshop Nerd

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    Except Jeep is building on Wrangler, and it's capabilities. Jeep Grand/wagoneer, for instance. That, being based on DT, won't likely be what you call a soft-roader. Honestly, most of the DOJ thread was people complaining that jeeps aren't as capable as they once were. Whereas that may be true in terms of solid axles etc, they forgot something. They don't need to be. Jeeps sales prove that.

    I, if I had the money necessary, would likely buy the upcoming wagoneer; as it'll be a good combination of capability when needed, and large enough that we won't need much else, with our own little one on the way. But, I wouldn't mind having what you might think of as the worst Jeep in the lineup for a daily driver. A base-ish renegade. 1.4t, manual, AWD.
     
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  7. aldo90731

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    Your point about “Wrangler” having greater recognition in N.A., while “Jeep” in the rest of the world is well taken.

    Speaking strictly from a North America perspective, I’d say that for the average person, “Jeep” and “Wrangler” are, to great extent, interchangeable.

    This is a photo of a 2011-2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee showing a “Jeep” grille. We can debate whether it is the front of a “Jeep” or a “Wrangler”. To the average person in N.A., it’s one and the same.
    [​IMG]

    The only reason FCA can strike a chord by showing a 1941 Jeep next to a 2015 Renegade is because "Jeep" has been in continued production, in various shapes and form through Wrangler, for 75 years. Otherwise, no one would care.
     
    #67 aldo90731, Nov 28, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
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  8. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic
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    They’re not two families, so to speak, but rather branches of the same family. They may not be that closely related in appearance, or in mechanics, but they have a common ancestor...the original Willys. But the relationship is mostly through marriage and not actual genetics at this point. Remove Willys...and it’s closest living relative Wrangler...then the other Jeeps would be plain old, run of the mill SUV’s and CUV’s with nothing to hang their hat upon as far as heritage. Rebadge Renegade, Compass, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee as any other FCA brand and they probably would not sell as well, especially in foreign markets. Their current “legendary Jeep capability” would become “AWD capabilty”...which in no way carries the same weight for marketing purposes.

    This is why folks on here and other forums got so concerned when these soft Jeeps started appearing...and there was talk of switching Wrangler to independent suspension. They recognized that Wrangler carries the genes that makes the Jeep brand what it is. The “legendary Jeep capability” is built upon the things that Wrangler can do. The soft Jeeps can do some of it, but by themselves would never be able to carry the Jeep brand image...not for long anyway. That’s why they put the Easter eggs in the other Jeeps, and have photo ops with Wranglers, CJ’s, and Willys Jeeps. It’s to pay homage to the vehicles that built and maintain the brand.
     
  9. ECT72

    ECT72 Member

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    Wow. So much negativity in this thread. I own a renegade and like it quite a bit. Seems well engineered and screwed together. Tranny could still use more updates, slow to down shift. Apart from that few gripes. Engine is bit loud but perfectly acceptable power for this type of car

    That said, does anyone know when these two get the new turbo 4?
     
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  10. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    Jeep Wrangler has its limits, and some posters seem to not know or forget about.
    In some situations there are other offroad vehicles that can be on par or superior for capabilities.

    Before buying it would be preferable to know vehicles capabilities and which capabilities one needs.
    To not forget also what are the driver capabilities.

    And we have not to forget the wallet to purchase a vehicle and its running and maintenance costs.

    Not to be bad, but since some already posted videos... here one of four jeeps (as some people would refer to that vehicles in some countries), one Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, one Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon, a Toyota Land Cruiser 105 and a Land Rover Defender 95 with to other vehicles.



    One can see
    - sometimes driver forget about locking differentials in Rubicon
    - tyres effect (are stock tyres)
    - not so great breakover angle (that for the ones that doesn't know is inferior to the one of a Jeep Renegade Trailhawk).


    The effect of the breakover angle.
     
    #70 MJAB, Nov 28, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
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  11. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic
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    Nobody here said that Wrangler didn’t have limits...not sure where you’re getting that from. From an off road capability standpoint, Wrangler is superior to Renegade, Compass, Cherokee, or Grand Cherokee. It’s ability to be modified by adding lift kits, larger tires, and other equipment only adds to the already impressive performance. None of the other Jeeps can be modified easily...and without great cost...and not without risking damage to the suspension parts by changing the geometry. There are other vehicles out there with similar abilities...some perhaps better...some not so much. But most likely you’re going to pay more for them.

    As far as breakover angle, there is a difference between JK and JKU. Both have advantages and disadvantages which are well documented here in the forum. As you said, one needs to know the capabilities of their vehicle and the limits of those capabilities. Any vehicle can be pushed beyond those limits, and one does so at their own peril.

    This isn’t meant to bash the softer Jeeps. I respect what they are, and what they’re capable of...and I’ve always said as much. But I also recognize what Wrangler can (& can’t) do, and what it means to the Jeep brand as a whole. I’ve had a Wrangler (TJ) and a Liberty Renegade. I know very well the advantages & disadvantages of both vehicles, what they can & cant do. Together it’s over 20 years of driving experience in Jeeps, in all road and environmental conditions.
     
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  12. aldo90731

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    As my 2015 JKU approaches 25,000 miles, it is dutifully developing all sorts of squeaks, rattles and groans.

    Having owned six JKs, I can attest this loosening is typical at these many miles, and is likely a combination of the flex from the BOF setup and my constant off-roading.

    After driving my dad’s 2013 Journey regularly, I started thinking it may be time to get a more quiet, relaxed and comfortable Grand Cherokee. I can easily get a used fully-loaded 2017 GC Trailhawk with 15,000 miles for $10,000 off the price of a new one.

    I know I will miss not having a Wrangler. But I figure I can do without for a year or so, until I am ready for a JL 2-door.

    However, watching this video, showing these two Jeeps with their pathetic articulations and embarrassing capability, I am getting second thoughts about getting a Grand Cherokee.
     
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  13. aldo90731

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    Need has little to do with it. Who needs a Mercedes G-Wagon? Who needs Demon? Who needs a 911, a Ferrari or a Lamborghini? It is all about bragging rights and standing out from the mass of me-too products.

    The day Jeep thinks it can water down Wrangler because no one needs what it can do, the entire Jeep brand will start to collapse like a house of cards.
     
    #73 aldo90731, Nov 28, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
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  14. CherokeeVision

    CherokeeVision Well-Known Member

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    And the powers that be took the Grand Cherokee and Cherokee and the rest of the Jeep vehicles to a whole new lower level.
     
  15. link3721

    link3721 Yes, This MK Goes Off-Road
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    I've wondered why Jeep doesn't make more use of sway bar disconnects in all of their products. That seems like an easy way to increase articulation (and why I've got front disconnects on my Patriot).
     
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  16. Mr. Fusion

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    And so you'll run into the arms of...what? A Honda Pilot? Exactly which "quiet, relaxed and comfortable" 4x4 will you be left with when you rule-out Jeep as not being capable enough?!
     
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  17. aldo90731

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    A Chevrolet Colorado ZR2, a Toyota Tacoma TRD, a Ram Rebel or a Toyota 4Runner TRD. But I am not ready to go there, yet.

    I wish Jeep offered a better balance between capability and comfort, like Grand Cherokees did up to 2004.

    I’ll probably just keep my Wrangler and keep putting up with its quirks.
     
    #77 aldo90731, Nov 28, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
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  18. aldo90731

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    @CudaPete has been arguing on another thread for a more “civilized” Wrangler to be sold under the Chrysler name.

    With Jeep focused on the two ends of the market, with Wrangler on one end, and a bunch of glorified hatchbacks on the other, there’s room for something in the middle, like the pre-2005 Grand Cherokee.

    I’d be interested in a cushy, comfortable BoF SUV with solid axles, mechanical limited slip, SelecTrac and Quadracoil suspension, even if it were sold as a Chrysler.

    Oh, and make a HEMI available. Just as well...
     
    #78 aldo90731, Nov 28, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
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  19. BASONE88

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    That thing about Wrangler-level capability just emphasizes how special and specialized the Wrangler is. The Wrangler(like no other)is the definition of off-road. Any deviation from that isn't it.

    First thing I thought about the video; that Subie has been highly modified to play with a stock Renegade. I wish the Renegade had those tires(but they might rub)!
     
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  20. T_690

    T_690 Active Member

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    And in Europe it's expensive, poor quality, high cost of ownership brand.
    I never looked at their sales here. I presume they are on downward trend.
     
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