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Cool future Chrysler 300 rendering

Discussion in 'Mopar News' started by turbonetic, May 9, 2020.

  1. page2171

    page2171 Well-Known Member

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    That is kind of where all of these discussions lead. Chrysler as a brand doesn't have an identity. Dodge is performance, Jeep is off road adventure, etc. Chrysler is what? Nobody knows. And until that question is answered we will keep having these discussions.
     
  2. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    FCA is the company of inaction: Chrysler, Fiat in N.A., Lancia...Alfa Romeo depending on the day of the week... Dodge, the “sticker edition” brand...still no fix for JL’s steering after 3 model years...
     
  3. sickboy

    sickboy Well-Known Member

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    Why can’t chrysler be an “old mans car”? Seems what most people forget about American luxury is how American it is. No need to carve a corner, how about wafting down a pockmarked city street, 30mph, without spilling the coffee? Not a whisper from outside and carpet you can lose change in?
    I want my imperial back!!!
     
  4. codypet

    codypet Well-Known Member

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    Is that right? I swore on these threads that Daimler killed it, and Sergio wanted to resurrect it, but all the tooling had been scrapped by then.
     
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  5. cygnus

    cygnus Well-Known Member

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    Chrylser Wagons - Voyager, Pacifica, and a next generation 300 based wagon wouldn't be so bad. If there's going to be a next generation 300, I doubt it will be a five passenger vehicle. Base version will come with the 2.0L, and the inline six should be available by then and will be the premium offering.

    An straight six wagon actually sounds pretty nice.
     
    #65 cygnus, May 21, 2020
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
  6. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Today that’s called a “full-size pickup.”
     
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  7. Ryan

    Ryan Moderator
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    I still don't think wagons have any traction in the US market.
     
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  8. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    They do if you call them “sport SUVs.”
     
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  9. Ryan

    Ryan Moderator
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    Maybe if you give them a more traditional crossover shape too...
     
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  10. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Good luck. I've never gotten an answer. I don't think Chrysler Corp had one either. In essence, there was the Chrysler/DeSoto/Dodge/Plymouth carline, all basically the same until 1960, except in different sizes. The big car with the big engine was the Chrysler and so on.

    Yes, like the Venza, which is a Camry wagon.
     
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  11. jimboy

    jimboy Well-Known Member

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    I disagree about DT, guess I always will. Jeep does not NEED a Grand Wagoneer, as badly as Chrysler NEEDS a new product, there is plenty of Jeeps available in all sizes and shapes. Chrysler is starved for any product, and a vehicle like that puts it in direct competition with Chevrolet, Ford, GMC, Cadillac. Dare I say it? MAINSTREAM! The latest Chrysler anthem! And yes make it a Hybrid first, then bring on the internal combustion for those that must have it. I also doubt that a DT sized Jeep would have much traction world-wide except for Saudi's, and the like. Not really usable in Europe or many other places. So denying Chrysler, to sell a few Jeeps in the middle east, seems self defeating. Let the Big Jeep compete with L.R., G-wagen, etc. and give the 'mainstream' space to Chrysler. HMM, "mainstream", and a "people mover", doesn't sound much like a "Jeep" to me!
     
  12. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    The famous management structure Alfred Sloan introduced at GM, of Cadillac-Buick-Oldsmobile-Pontiac-Chevrolet, and copied by Chrysler-Desoto-Dodge-Plymouth, and Lincoln-Mercury-Ford, focused on a price hierarchy, not a brand identity.

    So for years Chrysler brand was well served: Chrysler didn't need a brand identity as long as it was priced above Dodge and Plymouth. As brand identities started proliferating in the 1960s, Dodge and Pontiac adopted a youthful angle, while Chrysler, Buick and Oldsmobile stuck to a don't-rock-the-boat positioning that focused on "affordable luxury."

    In hindsight, this price hierarchy was a mistake: Cadillac and Lincoln set product prices based on history instead of market opportunity. As Cadillac and Lincoln prices failed to keep pace with Mercedes and BMW upward movement, it had the effect of putting a lid over the rest of the American automotive brands. As time passed, GM, Ford and Chrysler brand portfolios got squeezed from the top by stifled Cadillac and Lincoln, and from the bottom by new competition coming from Japan.

    The success of the 2005 300 came from a product that embodied the images that consumers had of the Chrysler brand. But this strategy is difficult to replicate; more so without a product wizard like Tom Gale in charge. Without this magical ingredient, consumers view Chrysler as simply slapping badges onto non-differentiated, generic products.
     
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  13. NWbyNW

    NWbyNW Active Member

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    Way too stumpy in the rear.
     
  14. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Aldo -

    An excellent rendering of history.

    Chrysler started out in the midprice range, with features of the top cars; so it was a bargain, but when you look inside a vintage Chrysler and a vintage Packard or Cord or what-have-you, you can tell which was the midprice car. The engineering of the Chrysler set it apart—ride, power, and reliability in particular.

    Plymouth, as the Chrysler Four a/k/a Good Maxwell, started out the same way, sort of; it had technology you couldn't find on many top-level cars, but it was definitely a lower-end model priced as a more expensive, better alternative to Ford and Chevrolet. (Everything was a more expensive, better alternative to Ford, though.) And after a few redesigns, the Plymouth had more (engineering wise) in common with a Chrysler than with a Chevy or Ford.

    You're absolutely right about Caddy and Lincoln, though I would suggest part of the issue was tracking the wrong competitors; they tracked each other. No question about your history, though.

    I will add that Lido screwed things up even further. Until the Cordoba, the Chrysler was the big Mopar. It was defined by size as much as luxury. We bought cars by the pound! But the Cordoba was a mere B-body. Okay, it could survive. But then Lido... he simply uptrimmed and up-priced Dodges and Plymouths to get Chryslers. It was bad enough when Dodge stole every Plymouth design they could find; now Chrysler was basically selling Reliants with extra chrome.

    All this explains why it's hard for Chrysler to find its mojo. Cadillac, if they had taken what I'd say was a more sensible path, could have found its identity in the 1970s “classical look” grilles and such, going for the soft ride, and leaving Buick to pursue sport-luxury. Instead, they went the other way, because Chinese buyers wanted soft rides, and Buick was the big China brand for GM. Cadillac had to find something else. At least GM made a choice. Ford has been tossing around ideas for Lincoln without coming to any conclusions other than “high price.” (We won't mention the low-trim Escalade or Navigator, which both looked incredibly cheap inside.)

    What identity does Chrysler have? the average person, I think, considers it to be a pricier Dodge. Why not? That's what it's been since 1980 or so. That's 40 years. What's more, it kinda works.

    We are rapidly reaching the point, though, where Chrysler is the minivan brand.

     
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  15. gforce2002

    gforce2002 Well-Known Member

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    Even with BEVs, various brands are already ahead in positioning themselves as established players. So Chrysler would still have to play catch up.
     
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  16. XRT2SRT

    XRT2SRT Well-Known Member

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    :)
     
    #76 XRT2SRT, May 27, 2020
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
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  17. hmk123

    Level III Supporter

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    Great analysis! I often think of the 2005 Chrysler 300. The great design was obviously part of the story. But to me it was also the return of the V8 and RWD (which with ESP did a bit better in the snow ) and the timing. People were ready for that car at that time. Even if you leave timing out. IMHO you just can't reproduce something like this that often where things just come together: great design, powerful V8 and going back to something like RWD. During the time that I have been aware of Chrysler it has lived through its novelties: the cab forward cars, the Grand Cherokee, the bold RAM trucks, the PT Cruiser, the LX cars. Even the Hellcat engines. But as time goes on it becomes harder to come up with novelties. In that regard it is obviously a lot easier for brands with a brand identity to keep loyal customers. But at least to me it is also usually more boring. Yeah, people complain our LX cars for example are behind the times. And it might look like we are trying a bit too hard in our jeans and T-Shirts at age 50 or 60. But to me cars are as much about the memories as they are about innovation. Who knows, maybe one day someone can build an identity around that and keep selling to those who want less video game and more automobile. :)

    And with more possibilities I think great designs are about restraint and following instinct. To not replace that working knob with some silly touch screen volume control... Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should (e.g. replacing the oil dip stick with some sensor and display).
     
  18. MSwenning

    MSwenning Active Member

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    Pacifica ceased production in 2007, as a 2008 model. It was gone long before Sergio came to the company, would've been Diamler that ended it, but possibly Cerebus? they took over in 2007.
    EDIT: I looked it up and Pacifica was announced to Cease production on Nov 1 2007, ending production on Nov 23 2007. Cerebus took over on Aug 3 2007. Cerebus killed Pacifica.
     
    #78 MSwenning, May 28, 2020
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
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  19. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Given the dates, the decision to end Pacifica was likely made before August 2007 - before Cerberus - even if it wasn’t publicly announced.
     
  20. MSwenning

    MSwenning Active Member

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    That could very well be true. Did Sergio really want to resurrect it, but the tooling was long gone? That seems unlikely as it would have been out of production for 2 years by the time he came into the picture. Who would really bring back a vehicle in the same form that hasnt been produced for 2 years? If anything i would think he would have planned to make a 2nd Gen, wich is what i believe the Dodge Journey should've been anyway.
     

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