AF: Dart, 200 “to run their course” | Page 66 | Allpar Forums
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Dart, 200 “to run their course”

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by Dave Z, Jan 27, 2016.

  1. JKU12

    JKU12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    3,295
    Likes:
    4,094
    You are proposing that they will make more money by having a commodity loss leader in the showroom to convert someone to a CUV? Are you willing to gamble the future of the company by taking up valuable mfg space to produce this loss leader instead of more directly profitable vehicles?
     
  2. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    36,504
    Likes:
    19,090
    If the current system was as flexible as it should be, there would be no need for a dedicated plant to make 200 or Dart. But hey, this modular stuff is great isn't it?
    Are you willing to gamble the future of the company on people buying nothing but trucks, SUVs and CUVs forever? Tastes will change, fuel prices will rise, the economy will falter and we'll be back to the excuse used for the Dart - that they were out of the market segment so long no one considers them anymore.
     
    somber, UN4GTBL and Ian like this.
  3. DBY2014

    DBY2014 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    357
    Likes:
    451
    This thread can just go on forever......................LOL

    I really think most of us are thinking too hard about it. The reality is Sergio is making FCA easier to merge with or join with partners. I really think he is not thinking FCA can survive on it's own in NA with just trucks and suvs. He is willing to gamble that FCA can survive long enough on it's own to merge with someone or have a long term partnership with someone soon before he retires.

    Also, there has been some talk FCA's issues are not just about their cars. Just look at this recent post on Edmund's experience with servicing their long-term Jeep Renegade.

    http://www.edmunds.com/jeep/renegad...negade-trailhawk-communication-breakdown.html


    That is very typical of my experience that last few years with all the FCA dealers around me and the #1 reason I will most likely jump ship in my next purchase. I just can't take the crappy FCA dealerships around me anymore.
     
    Robert Johnson likes this.
  4. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    12,761
    Likes:
    23,186
    Problem is you have to invest in the current cars that are out there to make them competitive as well as not slam your engineering or designers in the process. If there is a major fault with the current correct it during a refresh. The CUSW platforms are good, but the cars are too much like everything else out there on the road design wise. Dart could be easily fixed if invested in. In my opinion the 200 looks good, but it shares too much with other cars out there in the marketplace. Chrysler always did best by setting forth design and pushing design to somewhere different than the others. The LH cars were a great example. The 200 should have been made to look like the 200C EV Concept, I believe that car would have been so different than any other midsize car it would have stood out in the crowd.
     
  5. JKU12

    JKU12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    3,295
    Likes:
    4,094
    Personally, I feel with the advancements that have been rapidly made to CUVs to make them mpg competitive with cars (check out the small difference between Cherokee and 200), the future hybridization and electrification of most/all vehicles, the likelihood that there may in fact be a permanent consumer shift away from small and midsize low sedans, and that oil prices may stay low for a long time for a variety of factors.... I think the narrative that is being sold that all of a sudden, Americans will have to shift away from gas guzzling SUVs to tiny small cars is just not an accurate one. Most Americans these days are not buying large BOF SUVs like in the past. They are buying CUVs that are essentially tall cars.

    Also, we don't know yet what he means in terms of FCA US having a small and midsize sedan to sell in the showroom.
     
    TripleT likes this.
  6. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
    Staff Member Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2001
    Messages:
    34,814
    Likes:
    20,359
    The issues with dealers...

    Another reason to have dropped Chrysler and brought back Plymouth - under different contracts... however, never mind. I know that boat has sailed.
     
  7. TripleT

    TripleT Allpar Legacy

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    7,385
    Likes:
    10,193
    The Ford people are going nutz about the cars being shifted to Mexico..... not paying attention that they are bring 3-5 CUVs to replace them.... not just a FCA thing. Had Russian not taken some odd stances there would be Focusssssss going around the world from St.Petersburg.
     
  8. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    12,761
    Likes:
    23,186
    Pun intended!!!
     
  9. grungerockjeeper

    grungerockjeeper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2012
    Messages:
    704
    Likes:
    685
    Why? I dont see a whole lot of sense to that, myself. Sedan variant should definitely be at Chrysler, and possibly at Dodge also but a Dart 5 door hatch would be the most return on investment vs a 3 door. Any hatch is going to be a smaller seller, thats just the reality but thats the one you want to use as a base for any SRT variants.
     
  10. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    12,761
    Likes:
    23,186
    The Fiat Ottimo is a Dodge Dart hatchback... and does it seem more appealing than the Dart with all the trim levels.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    That is the Fiat Ottimo Sport above...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Race car concept...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Fiat Ottimo Cross Concept... offroad hatch version of the Dart...
     
    JavelinAMX, UN4GTBL, Mallard and 2 others like this.
  11. geraldg

    Ad-Free Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2002
    Messages:
    3,817
    Likes:
    743
    I guess you have not looked at the new Buicks, Lincolns and even Jeeps the grille looks very similar.
     
  12. TripleT

    TripleT Allpar Legacy

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    7,385
    Likes:
    10,193
    now I got 20/15 vision... 3D mind.... and I have no idea what your talking about... even if it was on subject.
     
    UN4GTBL likes this.
  13. Ian

    Ian Car Freak

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2003
    Messages:
    2,089
    Likes:
    1,639
    Why can't we have these models here? That Dart hatchback would sell. Focus and Mazda3 Hatch are good sellers.
     
  14. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
    Staff Member Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2001
    Messages:
    34,814
    Likes:
    20,359
    So are the Viaggio and Ottimo not selling?
     
  15. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
    Staff Member Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2001
    Messages:
    34,814
    Likes:
    20,359
    For those who did not get the reference earlier ... [​IMG]
     
    MPE426HEMI likes this.
  16. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    12,761
    Likes:
    23,186

    This video is from 2012, when Sergio said the China plant would build up to 170k Viaggio Sedans (Dart)... however the car only sold these figures in China (does not include exports)

    Fiat
    Viaggio

    2012 11,288
    2013 48,375
    2014 43,922
    2015 21,399

    The car hasn't been such a hit with China as Sergio and the Fiat Group had thought maybe the Dart isn't getting updated because of how the car (Dart and Viaggio) are performing as a whole? I personally think Chrysler Group would be fine on their own, however I think the real reason he wants to merge with another is to save the Fiat brand. Remember, Chrysler saved Fiat from bankruptcy not too long again. Chrysler Group was sending money to Fiat Automobiles to keep them afloat.

    FYI, the Ottimo (Dart hatchback) sold these numbers in China (does not include exports)

    Fiat
    Ottimo

    2014 24,168
    2015 10,082

    2015 had to do a lot with the Chinese economy taking a huge dive towards the later part of the year too.

    I just don't see why Dart has to be penalized for it all. Upgrade the darn car.

    FYI, Dart has had these US figures....

    Dart
    2012 25,303
    2013 83,388
    2014 83,858
    2015 87,392
     
    Citation84, UN4GTBL and Ian like this.
  17. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    36,504
    Likes:
    19,090
    It seems we are only allowed a few models per brand and one body style per model.
    The exceptions being Jeep and Ram (several models each) and model variations (Wrangler/Wrangler Unlimited and lots of cab variations on Ram pickups).
    I think the 200 was the last car, and the only one in several years that offered to styles (sedan and convertible).
     
  18. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    12,761
    Likes:
    23,186


    Let's go back a couple years to the 60 Minutes interview Sergio did and listen from the 4:00 minute mark on, for a couple of minutes about the Dart and see what you think now!
     
  19. geraldg

    Ad-Free Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2002
    Messages:
    3,817
    Likes:
    743
    I remember when the Sebring/200 has a sedan , coupe and convertible now just a sedan.
     
    UN4GTBL likes this.
  20. Ian

    Ian Car Freak

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2003
    Messages:
    2,089
    Likes:
    1,639
    Doesn't make sense. There is a vehicle sold by FCA (Dart hatch)that could be successful here and they don't have to spend a fortune on manufacturing as it is already being built and sold. I don't understand.
     
    UN4GTBL likes this.

Share This Page

Loading...
 We are not affiliated with FCA. We make no claims regarding validity or accuracy of information or advice. Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.