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Details Regarding New Engines

Discussion in 'Rumors and General Chrysler Discussion' started by Jerry Simcik, Dec 19, 2019.

  1. James A

    James A Active Member

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    I do not buy better MPG yet. I hear very mixed things about real-world MPG from turbo'd fours and sixes. My personal experience with a 2.0T was shockingly bad - like worse than with a 5.7 with all driving conditions equal. I hear very mixed things about turbo'd sixes as well.
     
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  2. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Until the standards better reflect real-world driving, what matters most (especially to a company like FCA that especially sensitive to emission and fuel economy fines) is that the smaller engine is better in the tests even if it isn't in the real world.
     
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  3. mopar22

    mopar22 Well-Known Member

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    My gti (2.0t) has gotten better mpg in every way compared to my dart (2.4). City driving they are about the same but highway the gti shines, also the gti is now tuned and still handily beating the dart. In fact the only car that i have ever owned that has beat the gti for mpg has been my 03 neon. If you stay out of boost you'll be able to easily beat mpg. Like others have mentioned when you want v6/v8 power that's when you'll get the fuel economy like one. So instead of v8 power and fuel economy on the highway you now get i4/i6 fuel economy on the highway
     
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  4. Tin Man 2

    Tin Man 2 Active Member

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    The only fuel economy gains with the small engine comes from less parasidic loss due to fewer pistons sliding in their bores and less valve springs, It takes a certain amount of fuel to generate 300 HP be it a T4 or a V8, a slow turning low RPM V8 may burn a touch more fuel but it will last longer then a T4 in the same vehicle driven the same way. Most of the economy inprovements in new vehicles comes from better transmissions that keep the engine in it’s best RPM range for economy.
     
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  5. Muther

    Muther Well-Known Member

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    From my experience, turbo engines are like a variable displacement engine. The company Silverado I drive is supposed to get 20-22 in mixed driving. About 500 of them are in our company being driven by techs just like me, and there are about 75% of them that get 20-22 mpg mixed.

    I have no gosh darn clue how they do that. I struggle to get 15 mixed, and 16 highway.

    One guy fellow tech told me, “if you can keep your foot out of it, you’ll get the 20mpg!”


    The turbos are like that. I have no clue how those people are getting the mpg figures they do. No car I have ever driven got anywhere near the advertised MPGs. At some point I had to accept that it me, and my Mario-Andretti-smart-monkey driving.
     
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  6. James A

    James A Active Member

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    "If you stay out of boost" is the key it seems and in all honesty, it screams "What is the point?" when I read it. It seems pretty clear that it's all about what goes on paper, not real-world driving.
     
  7. Mopar392

    Mopar392 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t care about MPG either but I care about how fast it accelerates from the moment I step on the gas. Thus, I know the advertised mpg for the turbo engines don’t mean nothing..
    I like my natural aspirated 392 for its rumbling and my loud catback, but I like the supercharged engines for its whine and turboed engines for its whistle and how quick and cheap you can gain a noticeable performance..
     
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  8. sickboy

    sickboy Well-Known Member

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    The savings on parts alone could very well be a major factor to the “push”. Two fewer pistons and rings, two fewer connecting rods and bearings, one less head less gaskets less spark plugs (less parts to fail) and less time or work to assemble them.
    Less space needed between fenders means more applications which means less need to to have multiple power plants to fill multiple engine bays.
     
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  9. Tin Man 2

    Tin Man 2 Active Member

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    Yes there is a savings if you leave off the TURBO and Blowoff Valve and Duct Work.
     
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  10. mopar22

    mopar22 Well-Known Member

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    How often do you think you're gonna be in boost? The power is there when you need it but when cruising around you're getting way better mpg. I think you're underestimating how little people don't use the power of their engine. If you go peddle to the metal every where you go yeah you're not gonna get the advertised mpg, but you're not gonna get that with any vehicle then
     
  11. James A

    James A Active Member

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    I've never driven a turbo car that wasn't tuned from the factory for the turbo to spool up and kick in under regular driving. Aside from being difficult to avoid the boost, it's not really practical in that it meant moving very slow. As for cruising, I get upwards of 30 mpg while cruising on the highway in a Hemi in 4 cylinder mode. I'll take that any day over nursing a throttle to avoid boost.
     
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  12. mopar22

    mopar22 Well-Known Member

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    Turbo now a days at least for vw will change the boost depending on throttle input. If you are at highway speed and cruising at whatever rpm you will have next to no boost since you're not using the throttle all that much. On the highway at 80mph i am getting 35mph at 3k rpm but when needed i can kick down the gears and take on any of the v8s from fca other then the hellcat. So i get the best of both worlds, better mpg city and highway while getting "v8 power" due to the car light weightness
     
  13. wtxiceman

    wtxiceman Well-Known Member

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    What does the gti weigh?
     
  14. mopar22

    mopar22 Well-Known Member

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    Right around 3k-3.3k. Same as the dart was too actually
     
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  15. James A

    James A Active Member

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    Yea on highway I can understanding avoiding boost while cruising. Of course, you're also in a very small car that could basically fit in the trunk of a Chally/Charger (hyperbole of course lol), fit less people and stuff and the driving dynamics are of course way different. I prefer a bigger car and muscle aesthetics so I'd still take a V8 with cylinder deactivation mode and an 8-speed auto to get good mileage over a turbo. That being said, the GTI is a legend for a reason and I have a lot of respect for that car. My buddy has the Golf R and its excellent. I would not take it over a 5.7 for the reasons I already mentioned but I do really like that car especially on back roads.
     
  16. 68RT

    68RT Well-Known Member

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    If you are on cruise control, it will go in and out of boost on its own depending on terrain. It is mostly controlled by the amount of exhaust coming out of the engine. Even my Pentastar is sensitive to hill variations. Just not as much a turbo'd engine. My 68 R/T could get 17 on the highway but I could actually watch the gauge go down in the quarter mile.
     
  17. Tony K

    Tony K Active Member

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    I owned a 99 BMW 320d (E46) for about 6 months of 2018 while I was in Germany. Granted it was a turbodiesel, not gas, but if I can get my hands on a good example in 5 years when it is over 25 and not subject to import restrictions, I'd consider importing one. She'd get 40 MPG all day, handled like a dream, and diesel is still cheaper than gasoline in Europe. Then there was the 530d I rented one weekend. Dream car: handled like a dream and would go like heck on the Autobahn, but not cost an arm and leg to refuel if you put your foot in it - I had it up to 150 MPH at least once. After driving a 20 year old 3 series, the 2017 5er seemed HUGE, like my Challenger. It will be interesting to see how this all transpires in Germany with diesel vs electric.

    If you can get a 3L Inline 6 gasser with electric turbo for the bottom end and a large turbo for the top-end that's capable of mid-30s MPG Hwy in a full size car on 87 octane, they'll sell, everything else being done right.
     
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  18. James A

    James A Active Member

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    How much do you think a twin-turbo like that would cost? That sounds like an expensive HO version that won't run on 87. Maybe I'm wrong but that sounds like a premium engine trim to me.
     
  19. Jerry Simcik

    Jerry Simcik Well-Known Member

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    I'd imagine you're right - there's precedent for this at FCA already, anyway: Demon: Run premium, get 808hp; run racing gas, get 840...

    The old Neon SRT-4 "Toys" kit had a "High Octane" button that changed the engine's tuning to squeeze more performance out of hotter fuel.

    Also, the current 5.7Ls recommend midgrade, but have enough compensation ability to still run well enough for most people on regular.

    I wouldn't be surprised if premium isn't recommended for the hot forms of the I6, but that they de-rate themselves if "cheap" fuel is used so that running the cheap stuff won't cause catastrophic issues. So, yes, to get full performance, you'd likely need the high-test stuff, but I bet it would piddle around on the cheap stuff without too much fuss...
     
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  20. Doug D

    Doug D Virginia Gentleman

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    Knock sensor.

    Truthfully, my seat-of-the-pants sensor cannot tell the difference in power when I run 89 octane vs 87 octane in my '06 Ram 1500 Hemi. :)
     
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