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Dodge 1st to be 1st (JD Power ranking)

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by LeeRyder, Jun 24, 2020.

  1. mopar22

    mopar22 Well-Known Member

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    Yes ram is it's separate brand but ford, gmc, chevy, and Toyota all have their trucks with the car brand so all it takes is one or two bad cars to drag their whole brand down while ram is just ram
     
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  2. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Chrysler brands have always done well in the APEAL awards.
     
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  3. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    Do they have appeal to introduce new cars at (much) higher base price?
     
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  4. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    No, they tried this with Chrysler 200, Chrysler Pacifica, Jeep Cherokee, and even Ram 1500.
    Each of the ended up heavily incentivized. You can't arbitrarily raise prices in mass market brands - there is just too much competition - unless you significantly increase value to the customer. And quality is one value they choose to ignore.
     
  5. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Indeed. Another way of looking at it is this way: there are a number of rational dimensions like quality, safety, that drive consumer demand; then there are a number of emotional dimensions like styling, performance, that help justify the price. JD Power’s APEAL measures the emotional dimensions at which Chrysler tends to do better; IQS and especially VDS measure the rational dimensions. Like you say, Chrysler has traditionally done better with the emotional than the rational dimensions.

    Unfortunately, research shows that it is not one or the other. There’s a hierarchy: consumers expect automakers to cover the rational first; add the emotional later. Trying to deliver on emotion without taking care of the rational first leave a deficit in demand that then needs to be bridged through incentives and discounts.
     
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  6. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Without a solid foundation of quality to build on, it is extremely difficult for any brand to charge a price premium. Quality is the single biggest driver of consumer demand. Chrysler demand has been eroding through lack of product and lack of branding. It would be absurd to introduce a premium priced Chrysler at the moment, given the weak demand for the Chrysler brand, and expect it to sell.

    Jeep escapes this rule as long as the Jeep model doesn’t face much competition —e.g., Wrangler. The moment competition intensifies, as is the case with Renegade, Compass and Cherokee, Jeep is unable to sustain its price premium positioning and has to discount heavily. The more mainstream the Jeep product is perceived to be, the harder it is for Jeep to sustain a price premium without a quality reputation.

    Here in N.A., Toyota and Honda —and to some extent Subaru— are able to sell with lower discounts that everyone else because of the perceived quality of their products.
     
  7. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    Question was about Dodge. Chrysler is people's mover.
     
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  8. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Same principles apply to all brands.

    For Dodge to move quality perceptions, it will need to consistently win every quality award for the next 3-5 years, across all its model lineup. Winning one award is a drop in the bucket.
     
    #49 aldo90731, Jul 27, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
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  9. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Same principle applies to all brands.
    As is obvious from observation, each super big horsepower version of a Dodge product doesn't create the splash the previous one does and sales of each version taper quickly.
    The price premium they tried to get for SRT Durango resulted in a lot of unsold 2018 models and a greatly reduced 2019 production (from just over 5k produced for 2018 to just over 1k produced for 2019).
    Dodge has decided to be in a niche market. There are only so many buyers in that market and price can switch loyalties quickly. Look how buyers abandoned Viper as price went up.
     
  10. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Having only so many buyers is only half the problem.

    When you go and spend a significant chunk of money on a Hellcat, it is disappointing to find out a couple years later that Dodge is launching a limited edition Demon that dwarfs your Hellcat’s power. Worse, if you try to trade in your Hellcat, you realize that its value dropped like a rock.

    If you are foolish enough to be one of those few who spent a boatload of money on a Demon, then you are again disappointed to find out that your limited edition Demon has become a regular Redeye edition...for a fraction of what you paid. To add insult to injury, the motor that you thought so special is now being tossed into Jeeps and Durangos like it’s no big deal.

    Big power numbers does not make a brand strategy. Making your customers feel like fools over and over may allow you to collect fat profits in the short term, but eventually they will figure out your game, and you will find it increasingly difficult to find anyone willing to play along.
     
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  11. hmk123

    Level III Supporter

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    I remember showing our neighbors our six months old Commodore 64 and my father being in disbelief when the neighbor talked about a new special price that was half of what we paid.

    I think in general one can’t fault Dodge bringing out new product that entices new buys. When I bought my Hellcat I anticipated that a few years later there will be something better. I have learned that over the past 15 years. There will always be something better. Even though I am a big Mopar fan I am kind of not an ideal customer for them because I like to hang onto their cars primarily because I don’t like the depreciation of cars. But just like the next iPhone will make my current one somewhat obsolete I think some of that goes on in the car industry as well.

    Don’t get me wrong, I understand the difference between a phone and a car because of the price difference and equity people try to keep in it (including myself). But don’t we see depreciation left and and right in this industry? You don’t think Ford will try to do a GT500 KR? Or what about all those that thought the GT350R will disappear once the GT500 is released?

    I guess buyers of premium brands are faced less with this since they primarily lease. But with those brands’ depreciation having gotten a lot worse the past ten years I don’t understand how their lease payments have not gone up. Wondering if BMW and MB for example are “eating” those losses for short term gain.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if my Hellcat held its value almost better than some 5 or 7 series BMW.

    And personally I don’t feel like a fool anytime I see a nicer Challenger or Charger. I smile and am glad there is someone out there making some vehicles that stand out...
     
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  12. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    I wouldn’t compare a Dodge to an iPhone, either. Besides the obvious difference in price, when you buy a new iPhone you get a lot more; improved functions and enhanced design than simply a faster phone. Same thing with a new Shelby GT: you are paying more, but you also get a totally new car with better handling, better ride, newer styling, better fit and finish, greater efficiency, new electronics, new features, etc.

    In any event, I used to play their game but after getting burned a few times I wised up. My guess is with the state of the economy, and the vanishing prospects of a quick recovery, automakers are going to need to find other ways to lure buyers with.
     
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  13. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    The iPhone analogy no longer holds, though. Phones are a very mature product category now. New models are basically just faster, bigger screen, "more pixels" on the camera sensor, a couple of gimmicks that nobody will use like driving modes-- sorry, force-touch controls. People only upgrade phones when their "lease" runs out, or when their current one develops an expensive fault that makes a new one an affordable alternative to a repair.

    And yet, there are people who will insist on having the latest, biggest, fastest one. They know the game they're in, and they know they're "wasting" their money, but it's all about image. You get older, you stop caring so much about impressing people you don't even know.
     
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  14. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Another thing - Dodge has driven itself into "frivolous" or "pleasure" (for lack of a better word) niche.
    As soon as things get tough, the first thing people do is curtail their toy or pleasure spending. This niche will get hit harder than the general market if the economy stays down.
     
  15. hmk123

    Level III Supporter

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    The one advantage my Dodge has over a phone is that I can't accidentally put it into the washing machine. :)
     
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  16. hmk123

    Level III Supporter

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    Maybe, but people also like escapes. It just feels better getting out of Dodge in a Dodge than in a Honda Accord... :)
     
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  17. Ryan

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Or a Jeep. I'm considering taking a week to take a road trip away from all the Covid-19 stress and can't wait to drive my Jeep.
     
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  18. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    But people are limited by their available income which is likely trending down overall for many now. And uncertainty is probably a bigger factor than how cool it feels to step out of a Dodge. This will push demand down.
     
  19. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

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    Or...the phone doing a suicide-run into the toilet bowl.:eek::eek::eek:
     

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