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Dodge Dart leaving...........

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by CDJSalesPro, Jul 11, 2016.

  1. Ian

    Ian Car Freak

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    And the 9-speed is not a Chrysler built unit. Not only Chrysler as had issues with that specific transmission. Something you already know but mister that you quoted might not know.

    I remember when the minivans were dinged for their 4-speed auto transmissions, but Toyota can still sell them today and that's all fine and dandy! Like you said, damned if they do, damned if they don't.
     
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  2. Ian

    Ian Car Freak

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    And the 2016 Yaris also comes with a 4-speed auto.
     
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  3. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    Chrysler does build them under license, but yes you are correct.

    So was Avenger.

    Mike
     
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  4. Ian

    Ian Car Freak

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    I forgot about the Avenger. I have never driven one myself (mine is the 6-speed) but my grand mother's 200 has the 4-speed and can't say anything bad about it other than the 6-speed being rougher when downshifting.
     
  5. serpens

    serpens Well-Known Member

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    Well aware of what technology Toyota has and doesn't have. At no point was I saying Toyota was cutting edge. My point is the consumer can get in a rental Corolla and not have to make be like "oh poor thing is just confused because it's had so many drivers." The car just works. That is where I think any FCA product should be.

    Yes Mike the fact that it's a completely different design is quite obvious. The only point I'm making is the consumer shouldn't have to suffer- saying the 9-speed is having to handle too many variables to be as smooth as it should be in rental car situation is an excuse. That is the point I've been making since the beginning. I mentioned the 8-speed because it's clear that a transmission with a high amount of gears can be made in a no excuses situation, as we all know. If FCA can't produce/license a smooth shifting transmission then yes they deserve to be damned.

    You're right, Toyota did have that transmission problem. What I betting was that Toyota wouldn't make an excuse that their transmissions are befuddled by being used in rental car fleets. I'm not anti-FCA, I just found that adaptive transmission as an excuse.
     
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  6. serpens

    serpens Well-Known Member

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    This mister is well aware. At no point did I say Toyota was using superior technology. I'm merely pointing out that making an excuse for a transmission's performance because it's had too many drivers is unacceptable.
     
  7. Ian

    Ian Car Freak

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    Not only FCA is making that excuse....
     
  8. serpens

    serpens Well-Known Member

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    Who else? Genuinely curious. I've definitely heard people casually recommend resetting adaptions on cars but I haven't heard it being border line necessary for acceptable performance in a rental car environment.
     
  9. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

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    Nothing wrong with the 4 speed in my Avenger. Geared nice and is pretty smooth. Feels way better than the 6 I had in the DGC, minus the better MPG's of course.
     
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  10. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    Plenty of people drive 9 speed equipped rentals with no issue. Please feel free to assume they are all junk.

    You are continuing to assume that every consumer that rents a 9 speed equipped vehicle has an issue.

    I gave a logical explanation, not an excuse. My words are not Chrysler's. Chrysler has admitted issues with the transmission on multiple occasions and even fired manager(s) over it.

    Chrysler has taken publicly taken responsibility for the issue just like Toyota did.

    Mike
     
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  11. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    Chrysler, ZF, Honda, and Land Rover have all publicly admitted to several issues regarding programming, adapter learning, and engagement of the PTO on AWD applications of the ZF 9 speed.

    People discuss Hyundai having issues with rough shifting rentals on other automotive sites. TTAC has done stories regarding it also.

    Ford I had been heavily criticized for rough shifting dual clutch and one of the "fixes" is a reset... it doesn't work.

    This has been reported here and on many other automotive news sites.

    Mike
     
    #491 Mike V., Jul 18, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2016
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  12. serpens

    serpens Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I've said that in here myself. I should've clarified, what other car in the 200's class has had this happen?
     
  13. Ian

    Ian Car Freak

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    I work for Ford Motor Company and we get that adaptive learning stuff right from the Tech Hotline. Does FoMoCo have better transmissions? Absolutely not but not only FCA have that adaptive learn issue. I can't speak for the other automakers as I don't really have the experience with them.

    On edit: Plus the automakers using the same 9-speed auto as the Cherokee and 200.

    The 6-speed in my Avenger is a busy transmission compared to the 4-speed in my grandma's 200. It like to have that harsh 2-1 downshift too, that I have not experienced in the 200. I think the 4-speed is an overall better transmission (shifting wise)
     
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  14. serpens

    serpens Well-Known Member

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    I'm not assuming they're all junk. So touchy today. It's actually kind of funny. The fact that it was even a topic of discussion is what my whole point was predicated on.

    Your explanation is my excuse I suppose-which was the original argument. And at least for me, I can't say I would even feel Chrysler completely took responsibility for it if I had an early model given the recent hardware change. Business is business though, glad I wasn't part of it.
     
  15. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    Stop trying to push my buttons. There is no need to be disrespectful and/or sarcastic when you respond to people who do not agree with.

    Your blanket statement was not accurate.

    Responsibility has been taken, life goes on.

    I don't care what brand rental car it is... if it was beat the living crap on by the guy before you... it's going to behave like crap when you get it.

    Mike
     
  16. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Since Chrysler has only been working with adaptable transmission for 25+ years (probably 30 if you count development time), pretty much longer than any other company you'd think they'd be more on top of how the adaptability can result in poor user experience.
    If my first (or first in a few years) experience was the rental 2015 Chrysler 300, it would not have convinced me to look at buying a Chrysler product.
    On the other hand, the Charger rental was great, so was the Challenger rental and the upper trim (V6) Journey I had. Those cars left a favorable impression, 200 did not.
    Sadly, I could never find a Dart in the rental fleets.
     
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  17. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    Chrysler is not the only manufacturer that suffers from this issue. If a rental, regardless of brand, was beat on by the person before you, it's going to behave poorly as it adapts to any more conservative driving style.

    I can make my Durango shift a little rougher by driving it in manual mode for a day, then suddenly go back to eco mode and drive super conservative.

    Mike
     
  18. serpens

    serpens Well-Known Member

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    Not being either. It is what it is. And really, you saying "please feel free to keep assuming they're all junk" wasn't the friendliest message if you really, really want to go there.

    I'm really struggling to find where I said all 9-speeds were like that. Clearly some of them were having issues with that, which I pointed out as being unacceptable. You're the one who went off thinking it was a blanket statement, which is why I said you're being quite touchy.
     
  19. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    I'm not going to argue about it... I answered your comments and so did others.

    Mike
     
    #499 Mike V., Jul 18, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2016
  20. Powdered Toast Man

    Powdered Toast Man Move along, nothing to see here

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    Um, I just looked it up and the 2016 V6 Accord's numbers are 21/34 (26)
     
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