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Engine No Z44135

Discussion in 'AMC, Eagle, Hudson, Nash, Willys' started by felixkk, Aug 14, 2012.

  1. felixkk

    felixkk New Member

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    the original engine on my '58 jensen 541 has the number Z44135 (the car now has another engine). we have reason to believe that it may have been a nash engine:

    year 1956
    series 350
    4 = toronto
    engine no 4135

    would this be correct? is this the 352cui engine? would it be difficult to source such an engine?

    thank you for your help! felix

    here's the car:

    http://s1089.photobucket.com/albums/i344/felixkk8004/SEA770/
     
  2. ImperialCrown

    Level III Supporter

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    My Motor's manual Nash information on engine #'s goes up to 1955 and none have a 'Z' prefix for domestic US models. I believe that Packard supplied the big Nash/Hudson V8's.
    1955 was the first year of the mighty 320 cu.in. Nash Ambassador and Hudson Hornet V8. The footnote says to refer to the Packard chapter for service information and sure enough the Packard 320 engine has the same bore (3 13/16") x stroke (3 1/2") matching the Ambassador and Hornet V8.
    A larger 1955 Packard 352 cu.in. engine with a 4" bore x 3 1/2" stroke was used in the more premium Packard models. This larger 352 Packard engine may have been made available to Nash and Hudson in 1956.
    1953 Packard engine #'s began with 'L'. 1954 Packard engine #'s began with 'M'. 1955 was the first year of the Packard OHV V8. Up until then, they had been straight 8's.
    Could the numbering system have skewed all the way to 'Z' for the OHV?
    Did Toronto have a foundry for Packard then? The main foundry was probably in metro Detroit. I know that Studebaker and Packard joined in 1954 and Studebakers were built in Hamilton, Ontario until 1966, but Packards never made it that far.
    I'm interested on how you deciphered the engine number. Perhaps an AMC club or Packard club could help in IDing this engine?
    Nice, rare Jensen by the way.


    GEN-1 Nash/Hudson/Rambler V8s (1956-1966)

    This engine family is now referred to as the "GEN-1" AMC V8, but in its time it was known as the Rambler V8. As part of a larger plan of merging Packard,Nash, Hudson, and Studebaker, AMC President George W. Mason had a verbal agreement with Packard that the two companies would supply parts for each other when practical. AMC started buying Packard V8s in 1954 for the big 1955 Nash Ambassador and Hudson Hornet. These were supplied with Packard "Ultramatic" automatic transmissions - exclusively. Packard sent AMC some parts bids, but were rejected as too expensive. George W. Romney, AMC's new head decided against further relationships with Packard.[sup][1][/sup]
    Romney ordered his engineering department to develop an in-house V8 as soon as possible. The engineering department hired David Potter, a former Kaiser Motors engineer, to come in and help develop the engine. Potter had previously worked on a V8 design for Kaiser, and had the experience necessary to take the engine from drawing board to full production in just under 18 months, an extraordinary engineering feat at the time—slide rules were the norm because there were no computers.
    All these engines share common external dimensions, weight - about 601 lb (273 kg) - forged crankshaft and rods, as well as most other parts. The stroke for all GEN-1 V8 is 3.25 inches. Engine displacement: The 250 cu in (4.1 L) has a 3.50-inch bore, 287 cu in (4.7 L) 3.75-inch, and the 327 cu in (5.4 L) a 4.0-inch bore. Bore size is cast on the top of the block near the back of the right bank cylinder head. This is difficult to see with the engine installed in a Rambler due to the close proximity of the heater. It can be done with a small inspection mirror. Like most V8 engine designs of the 1950s, the block features a deep skirt where the casting extends below the crankshaft centerline, forming a very rigid crankcase gallery. The oiling scheme is similar to the Chevrolet Small-Block engine for feeding oil to the cam and crankshaft first, then to the lifter galleries.
     
  3. Bill Watson 2

    Bill Watson 2 Member

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    In the world of Nash, Canada was "1". not "4". Britain was "2", Hudson "3" and Canadian-built Hudsons "13". These digits were used before the model number, and never on the engines.

    Packard never made engines in Canada while Studebaker assembled them in the 1950's and 1960's. But neither had a foundry in Canada, and Packard did assemble cars in Canada from 1932 through 1939. Packard supplied Clipper engines to Nash and Hudson, the 320-cid V8 in 1955 and 352-cid in 1956.

    The letter "Z" was never used on Nash engines, although Hudson used "Z" as the prefix on the serial numbers for the 1956 Hudson Hornet Special - Z-1001 to Z-2757.

    Before the war Jensen used Ford flathead V8 engines from 1936 through 1939, and in 1938 the Nash ohv straight 8. In 1948-49 Jensen used a straight made by Henry Meadows Ltd. and then from 1949 to 1963 a straight six of 3993-cc putting out 130 bhp.

    This 3993-cc engine used the letter "Z" as prefix on the engine number. Z-14435 is the 13,435th engine built.

    So, who built engine Z-14435? AUSTIN!

    The 3993-cc six was used in 1948-54 Austin Sheerline and 1948-57 Austin Princess cars and 1958 & up Vanden Plas Princess 4-Litre.
     
    ImperialCrown likes this.
  4. felixkk

    felixkk New Member

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    Thank you for your responses. Typical engine numbers for the Jensen 541 model with the Austin engine were 1DA10xxxMJEN (xxx being the serial numbers), then later 40/108xx (beginning with 10811). There is one other Jensen (an "Early Interceptor") with a engine number beginning with Z, also with a V8 instead of the Austin engine. Somebody pointed us in the direction of Nash, but obviously this was not correct. To make matters more complicated, the engine in my car is a "Gold Seal" replacement engine w/ a MOWOG foundry mark. Here's the link to the discussion on the Jensen Forum (only for those interested in Austin engines!):
    http://www.joc.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17239&p=119257&hilit=gold#p119257
     

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