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Engine/transmission Bell Housings

Discussion in 'Repairs, Maintenance, Help' started by TWX, Aug 19, 2009.

  1. Bearhawke

    Bearhawke Things happen for a reason

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    No; I don't speak Hungarian (although I understand a few words) despite my father being from Szeged. :)
     
  2. racerhog

    racerhog Member

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    Awesome info..Keep it coming guys....
     
  3. kerrymann

    kerrymann New Member

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    So first of all I can confirm without a doubt that 93-95 dakota bellhousing will fit a AX15 to a old 2.2L/2.5L motor. Yay! Thanks again.

    The problem now is getting a high torque clutch. SPEC makes them up to Stage 5 but it seems like they are not making them anymore. There are a ton of other options for the V6 and V8 motors. Theoretically if it fit one of the V6 or V8 flywheels I should be able to use those clutches but I have no way of know if the V6 or V8 flywheel will fit the 2.2/2.5L crank.
     
  4. angelescityrunner

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    Both my 88 and 89 Horizons (L Bodies) have a 413 3 speed with lockup torque converter.
     
  5. britt7795

    britt7795 Member

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    bringing back a valuable thread here with a question. new to the forum and have read through this thread and am wondering on thing i have a 78 cj7 with a 4.2 i6 that is at least an 83 since it is serp belt, with the 904 behind it. does that 904 share the same bell housing pattern as the chevy v8s or just the amc motor family. thanks for any answers and this great thread.
     
  6. dana44

    Ad-Free Member

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    Pretty sure the Chevy V8s are different from the AMC bolt pattern, which is different from the Mopar bolt pattern. For some reason when AMC got 727 and 904s, they had a different bolt pattern to them, too.
     
  7. Martin Talsma

    Martin Talsma New Member

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    The Old Direct Connection Chassis Book P4349341 has a chapter on Mopar engine swaps and has blue print drawings for 4,6,and 8 cylinder bell housings. Martin
     
  8. ka9yhd

    ka9yhd Active Member

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    A470 is an A413 but with the bell housing bolt pattern for the Mitsu 2.6 and in the minivan the starter was on the front side of the engine.
     
    #88 ka9yhd, Jun 21, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
  9. AHBGuru

    AHBGuru Active Member

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    Just to toss some sand and water into the intake:

    'm reasonably sure the Phoenix V6 engines use a new bolt pattern.

    I've read (probably here on Allpar) that V8 and V6 block (or was it transmission?) designs were modified, starting in 2011 to accommodate the change.

    In other words, an older V8, V6 or transmission will not mate up to a 2011+ counterpart, and vice versa.
     
  10. AHBGuru

    AHBGuru Active Member

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    I believe the 3.6/3.2 Phoenix engine was used in pretty much everything from 2011 on up. If it's a 3.6, then it will not bolt up to a legacy transmission.
     
  11. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
    Level III Supporter

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    Wrangler held onto the old "minivan" 3.8 through the 2011 model year.
     
    AHBGuru likes this.
  12. AHBGuru

    AHBGuru Active Member

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    Thank you, kind sir !

    Appreciate the accuracy. So many forums outside of Allpar with bad, lousy, and horrible advice and info.
     
  13. ricky steiner

    ricky steiner New Member

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    so a 2.4l dohc 16valve will mount to the dodge Venture Gear T350 (also known as A578 and F5MC1) — 5-speed manual transaxle
     
  14. kastein

    kastein New Member

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    I'm kinda late to this thread, but this info is sorta-kinda-wrong and sorta-kinda-right. I've been junkyarding and jeeping for q
     
  15. kastein

    kastein New Member

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    oh darn it, my computer screwed up and pre-emptively posted that.

    ... uite some time, and here's the straight dope on 4 cylinder RWD stuff like that.
    The Iron Duke was used in jeeps until 83. It was a 60 degree GM corporate metric V6 bolt pattern as it was designed to be the "poverty spec" motor for vehicles that came with V6s normally.
    The AMC 2.5 was designed to almost be a drop-in replacement for it. I don't know if the motor mount pads are in the same places or anything, but the bellhousing pattern is the same 60 degree GM pattern as the Iron Duke it replaced. It was the economy spec engine for Cherokees beginning in 84, the luxo spec being the 2.8 V6 GM engine (gross... gutless and unreliable) with the same bellhousing pattern.
    The Dakota used the K car pattern w/ 2.2 and 2.5 cylinder K car engines until 95.
    In 96, with the K car discontinued, Chrysler decided that since they were still producing the old AMC 4 to go in XJs and YJs and soon TJs, they would just have a new bellhousing cast for the AX15 (the jeeps used AX5s with the 4 cyl - it was unreliable at stock 4 cylinder power levels, I regularly see them with stripped gear teeth on 3rd and sometimes even 2nd) to mate it to the AMC 2.5. So yes, in 1996 Chrysler was using a V6 GM bellhousing pattern in their trucks with a 4 cylinder that AMC designed.

    That continued through 01, when I believe the AMC 2.5 was finally discontinued.

    Any other questions, just ask. I memorize way too much of this stuff.
     
  16. kastein

    kastein New Member

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    Is there any way either I or a moderator could combine those two posts? I'm not used to this forum software and I don't see an edit or delete button anywhere, sorry.

    Addition - the Iron Duke and AMC 2.5 DO NOT use an SBC V8 bolt pattern, as the first post of the thread lists. That was the main point of my rambling answer and I completely forgot to include it, sorry. They use the 60 degree GM corporate V6 pattern.

    The only engine that I know of (other than V8 GM engines of all sizes, shapes, and colors) that uses the SBC V8 pattern is the 4.3 liter V6 motor they make. To make things confusing, being GM, they also made a 4.3 liter V8 (which uses the V8 pattern of course), a 305ci V6 (don't know what pattern it uses), and a 3800cc 90 degree V6 that uses the 60 degree V6 bolt pattern.
     
  17. GLHS60

    GLHS60 Well-Known Member

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    The Pontiac Iron Duke 2.5 L 4 cylinder Engine

    A friend has one in a RWD AMC car (Spirit ) years ago and he claimed it had a SBC bell housing.

    Thanks
    Randy
     
  18. kastein

    kastein New Member

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    I don't claim to know anything about the Pontiac one, if there were indeed different ones, but the AMC 2.5 I just gave away a few months ago definitely had the 60 degree pattern on it, and I've bolted 96-01 Dakota 4cyl bellhousings (also use the AMC motor) and 96-01 Dakota 4cyl engines into 80s MJs and early 90s YJs with stock 4cyl engines and transmissions respectively. And Wikipedia and that (unfortunately now dead) jeeps offroad thread linked in the original post do agree with this, so I suspect he might have forgotten exactly what it was over the years.

    PS - that brings up another fun fact... the Northstar from 90s cadillacs and the LS4 from 00s transverse-mount Impala SS models both have very similar bellhousing patterns to the GM 60 degree V6 pattern, as they were intended to bolt to transaxles mostly based off of V6 transverse models. You can easily bolt them to RWD transmissions from 4cyl 96-01 Dakotas, but it gets complicated when you try to mount a starter and/or partsbin together your flywheel/clutch/pressure plate/throwout bearing setup.
     
  19. GLHS60

    GLHS60 Well-Known Member

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    All Iron Dukes are Pontiac Engines as they are based on the Pontiac 301 V8.

    The first ones were all RWD (1977) and were so named as they replaced the Chevrolet 2300 Engine.

    The troublesome Vega 2300 featured an aluminum block with cast iron cylinder head.

    The Iron Duke moniker was a considered shot at the Engine it replaced.

    I believe all the early RWD versions had the SBC bell housing.

    After the 2.8 V6 was introduced the Iron Duke started sharing the same bellhousing.

    Thanks
    Randy
     
  20. 85lebaront2

    Level 2 Supporter

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    Actually, the Iron Duke was a reintroduction of the 1962 Chevy II 153 ci 4 cyl engine, just updated. As a result it had the Chevrolet standard 6 bolt pattern on the back of the block. GM built a number of "universal case" automatics for a number of years, it seems the dowel pins and two bottom bolt holes were common in location to Chevy and the BOP engines, just above the dowel pins it changed. Chevy had the lower and second bolts in a vertical line over and under the dowel pin on each side, then slanted in at a 45° angle parallel to the block deck where the third bolt was placed about halfway to the "peak", BOP blocks started slanting the pattern in at the dowel pin and ended up with dual "peaks" where the third bolt on each side sits. Universal cases had 10 bolt holes in them so they would fit either block.
     

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