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Fate of the Hemi 5.7?

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by andronikus, Feb 27, 2016.

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  1. MRGTX

    MRGTX Well-Known Member

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    Come on...
    This is just flat out false.

    I will agree that they do better than the "peak numbers" would lead you to believe but they're consistently pretty far off the mark from the equivalent model Camaro or Mustang.

    The 5.7 Challengers are very competitive with or a little quicker than the 2005-2010 Mustang 4.6L 3v.

    I'm saying this as an avid fan of each model, an owner of two subsequent Mustang GTs and with thousands of Challenger R/T miles under my belt....also as an avid participant in the Saturday night "stoplight shenanigan" scene.
     
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  2. sickboy

    sickboy Well-Known Member

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    Just to chime in, 4xx hp from the 5.7 would be plenty for me/ maybe 0-60 sub or low 5s. All I would want for the street. I hear track pack r&t chargers will do low 5s already but...
    Also, seeing the current gen mustang parked, I feel it looks better in pictures than in the real world. I feel the front "floats" too much, too tall and it looks like it's trying to lean forwards of itself. Desperately needs ground effects of the gt350, just seems to lose the appeal the terminators had and does not bring up the 68 shape I love. More of a blob.
    Gm...... Comes so close with so many designs, until you see the other end. I can't think of a single car that doesn't look like two or more separate designs mashed together. My wife wants a camaro so we sit in the new ones at the auto shows to check them out. 2016 had so many "pep boys" options and could only think it was created for 12 year olds. Other than the origional Camaro, can't think of a single gen that didn't have me shaking my head.

    Not to leave out the mopars, the challenger is too slab sided,(the gt concept fixed this) and the charger rt needs to be optional with the srt front end from the factory

    Of course this is all opinion and viewpoint.
     
  3. AutoTechnician

    AutoTechnician Well-Known Member

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    Not worth the debate MRGTX.

    The Challenger guys will say they kept or even pulled a car length ahead, the Mustang guys will say they kept up and multiple car lengths ahead. The Challenger guys will say the instrumented magazine testing doesn't reflect real-world performance, the Mustang guys will say the extra torque the 700 CCs gives doesn't matter.

    The Mustang, Challenger and Camaro guys all have a lot of pride about their vehicles, and most of them will not easily concede that "Brand X" is faster.
     
  4. MRGTX

    MRGTX Well-Known Member

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    I agree on only one point: It's not worth a debate.

    I'm NOT a Mustang guy. I bought my 2009 GT because it was way cheaper than the brand new (at the time) Challenger...bought my 2011 GT because it was SO MUCH faster than the Challenger R/T that it wasn't even in the same league.

    I LOVE the Challenger. It was the car that I wanted but I couldn't afford the SRT8 that would keep up with a base Mustang GT.
     
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  5. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    Welcome

    It's simply not true, I have weighed all three at the track. My Challenger R/T weighs 3890 at the track with full interior and I have seen Camaros weigh anywhere from 3850 to 4300 depending on model and options.

    Except it is not. Again real world racing
    experience here, not internet bench racing.

    The Scat Pack, off the showroom floor, is capable of 12.0-12.3 second passes in the quarter miles. The 1LE is a consistent 12.70 to 13.00 car off the showroom floor.

    And GM has been caught with ringer Camaro's in magazine tests multiple times in the last five to six years

    Considering that Challenger R/Ts are more than capable of low 13 second passes... Again the real world is a lot different than the magazines.

    The 5.7 is under rated and the torque curve is fantastic. There are many low low 13 second Challenger R/Ts out there.

    Mike
     
    #205 Mike V., Mar 14, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
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  6. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    I have full respect for the Coyote powered Mustangs and the LS powered Camaro's... I have beat them and they have beat me. I've never had an issue with a stock or one or two bolt on Coyote 5.0 Mustangs with my Challenger R/T that has a few bolt ons. I also know the difference between a heavily modded Coyote and they are a different story and I respect that.

    However, I also have no problem calling out internet fodder. I don't believe a stock Coyote will automagically trounce a Challenger R/T nor will a stock 2010-2015 Camaro SS just because on paper they have more horsepower. My real world experience of owning drag racing a Challenger R/T is how I make my determination.

    I have also posted time slips of a stock Scat Pack consistently running 12.0 to 12.20 on either stock tires or drag radials.

    Regardless of time slips, if the driver in the car is not competent at driving the car, they will get beat every time.

    Mike
     
    #206 Mike V., Mar 14, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
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  7. Muther

    Muther Well-Known Member

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    Simply put, the Dodge Challengers, have more torque (low speed power production) than the other maker's V8's. I don't think anyone will debate that, not even the Chevy and Ford folks.

    For the most part, in a drag race bewteen any late model Chally, Camaro, or Mustang (eqivalent models, and all with drag sticky's) it is going to be a driver's race. The weight penalty that the Chally pays, is blown out of proportion, as is the horspower advantages of the Chevy and Ford. On any given day, any one of them is capable of winning the race. At no time, is any single one of them, always going to lose or always going to win (in a well driven, fair race). These are cars are not that far off from eachother.

    If I were racing, I would want to make damn sure I could launch well, before laying any money on the line.

    All that said, from what I have seen at the strips, I would buy a Challenger, above the other two. All else equal, a well driven Chally, has a slightly better chance of beating a well driven Camaro, or 'Stang, in a fair race. Again, from personal observation. Also, from personal observation, the Mopars are more reliable when they are used/abused in such a manner. More expensive to fix, but more reliable. I have seen too many Camaro's and Mustangs boil and bake things when pushed to limits (more so at the road courses than at the strips).
     
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  8. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
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    Agreed!
     
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  9. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    Sigh, many R/T owners have no issues beating 2011-2014 Mustang GT's.

    I've never lined up next to a 2015 and up so I won't make any claims beyond that.

    Mike
     
  10. Muther

    Muther Well-Known Member

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    :eek:o_O
    Wrong, the 1970 Z/28 is the best looking...


    Oh man, tiome to get back to work...

    I am debating which Camaro is better looking.
     
  11. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    You have issues. ;)

    Mike
     
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  12. MRGTX

    MRGTX Well-Known Member

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    Not a chance in hell.
    Assuming the drivers are remotely comparable in skill and the Mustang isn't broken, an R/T just isn't going to do the job.

    As mentioned earlier, this isn't even up for debate. If your opinion is the consensus around here, there is mass hysteria going on with Allpar!
    :D

    In no way does this mean the Challenger isn't a great muscle car nor that the 5.7 hemi isn't a wonderful engine.
     
  13. jerseyjoe

    jerseyjoe Plymouth Makes It

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    Those FWD cars out accelerated everything US but the Buick GN.
     
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  14. Robert Johnson

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    Just how in any way did GM think they "blew" it with the 70 F body redesign? As soon as the strike was over they started selling like crazy unlike the Es that sold slowly. The Es were really nice looking but go back and read some car mags from the time. The Challenger was liked but most of the auto writers at the time felt it was too big. the Cuda was a bit smaller but again, most felt it was too sedan like for a Pony car. One can read on this site the history of the E bodies what a failure they were. Again, they were really nice looking and were great performers but were a sales flop and the GM F bodies were a solid hit.
     
  15. LouJC

    LouJC Active Member

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    In all honesty the Mopar E bodies looked great but the body workmanship was poor. The older Barracudas & Darts while not so stylish were both more practical and better built.
    The Camaro/Firebird were all that was left for the V8 rear drive faithful. Mopars fwd performance cars were fast but very crude with strong torque steer and lousy manual shift linkages. At the time GMs Performace cars were the top of the heap. The downsized Mustang 2 and fwd Mopars were just not in the same class. The return of the Z28 in '77 was a bit of optimism in a very dark era.
     
  16. MRGTX

    MRGTX Well-Known Member

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    1) how do you option a Challenger to be "3890"? I genuinely want to know
    2) there's no mass conspiracy on the oart of the magazines
    3) Challenger r/t is more lik a 14.0 car in the hands of a non professional driver. The magazines do a bit better.
     
    #216 MRGTX, Mar 14, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2016
  17. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    That's about as disrespectful as it gets... You claim you are not "trolling" but you make argumentative comments like this with nothing to back it up.

    How many Challenger R/T's have you beaten at the drag strip with your Mustang GT and what elapse times are you running?

    Mike
     
    #217 Mike V., Mar 14, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
  18. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    It's a Challenger R/T

    Just stop, you are being argumentative, again.

    In the hands of a "non professional driver" a Mustang GT is a 14.0 car... so is a Hellcat... So is a ZL1... So is a GT500. Practice makes perfect.

    You clearly have no real experience with the Challenger R/T and you must not visit the drag strip or look at real times slips from real owners.

    My Challenger R/T six speed ran 13.6's stone stock. Stock 5 speed autos are generally 1 to 3 tenths faster at the drag strip but the auto generally a touch slower than the six speed on the street. The 8 speed equipped cars are even faster than the 5 speed cars. There are many times slips of 5 speed auto Challenger R/T's running 13.0-13.20 with good drivers that know their cars and it takes very few mods to put them in the 12's.

    What kind of quarter mile times are you running with you Mustang GT?

    Mike
     
    #218 Mike V., Mar 14, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
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  19. grungerockjeeper

    grungerockjeeper Well-Known Member

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    If youre a bad enough driver, it can be a 14 minute car...

    How bout some scans of your timeslips in your car?
     
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  20. grungerockjeeper

    grungerockjeeper Well-Known Member

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    The Duster/Demon gave you 90% for far less money and a cheaper insurance tab. And as you said, A bodies were by and large a better screwed together car. I love me some E bodies, but the reality is it was about 3-4 years late to the party. Offering a total badge job on the Demon/Duster as well as what seemed like another in the E bodies (yes, Im aware of the differences, but Im a geek like that) didn't help matters. They were great cars, but the execution was lacking.

    Funny how now, it would NEVER be accepted that a fwd 4 banger would be the answer to a traditional V8 rwd muscle car, but the Shelby Charger and the turbo Daytonas were the de facto Mopar entry in the ponycar war. Having the right look at the right time helps, I guess.

    Either way, it took what, 34 years to FINALLY get another ponycar proper? Better late than never...
     
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