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FCA made money in North America, lost everywhere else?

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by Clark, May 5, 2020.

  1. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    No, he doesn't.

    He is all about marketing but today quality is very subjective so it works.

    Peugeot still doesn't know how to build a proper workhorse LCV. No worry. Their marketing and cost cut will fix it.
     
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  2. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    Since You like so much J.D. Power studies it coul be usefull to add that Fiat is no more at the end of the list in 2020 dependability study ;-)

    As You know, I don't consider J.D. Power media advertised "study" to be nothing more than a marketing tool for J.D. Power sell of services to automotive industry (their real study is something different and one have to pay to access to it. <== not for Aldo that know perfectly that).

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. somber

    somber 370,000 miles

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    I hope so, but won't the dealers have to be a part of better quality? It seems that US laws allow bad dealers to continue their ways, similar to how bad tenured professors can "mail it in", rather than strive to provide teaching excellence. I'm not trying to disparage dealers in general, since I buy from what I consider to be excellent dealers, but we all know there are some bad apples out there.
     
  4. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    The Alfa Romeo results aren’t surprising when you consider the first Alfa Romeo franchises were granted to the Fiat Studios that FCA selected. Only after that didn’t work so well, did the try pairing Alfa with Maserati.
     
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  5. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    But the question that never gets answered is this:
    "Despite the flaws, what is it about JD Power's surveys that penalizes the FCA brands and awards everyone else?"

    The measurement may not be perfect, but so many FCA brands filter toward the bottom.
    FCA makes vehicles that JD Power recognizes in the APEAL awards. But the problem seems that initial "love this car" wears off when during ownership.
     
  6. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    My personal opinion, based also on results on other markets of J.D. Power dependability (Germany and UK), it is for most about dealers post-sale services.
    How dealers work is what makes for most customer quality perception.

    Example: 2019 (last year available) UK and Germany dependability study
    In UK Peugeot is first with score 77 (industry average 119), in Germany is under industry average (115) with score 119.
    Mini in UK 8th with 103, in Germany last with 166.
    Fiat second from bottom ;-/ in the two. Well known to have bad dealerships in the two countries.
     
  7. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    But in the US, large corporations own a substantial portion of the market. These dealer groups may keep a local or family name on many of the dealer lots but these are huge multi-brand groups. The largest group sold over 300k cars per year. So with common ownership, why do the FCA brands fall to the bottom?
     
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  8. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Yes, and the quality of customer service delivered by CDJR dealers has declined significantly since the FCA merger.

    This is how CDJR dealers ranked before the bankruptcy. Although JD Power didn't break out Luxury and Mass brands back then, notice that CDJ were just below average, next to Toyota, and above Nissan, Mazda and Kia.
    [​IMG]

    One of the first actions Marchionne took upon taking over Chrysler was to cancel the dealer customer satisfaction measurement surveys, in the belief that "customers will reward good dealers and punish bad ones." He was utterly wrong: self policing just doesn't work. Seeing that customer satisfaction kept declining, FCA re-introduced new satisfaction measurements. Unfortunately. FCA tied customer satisfaction to so many financial incentives that they have not worked.
     
  9. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Indeed. No measurement is absolutely perfect, JD Power included. But the results are consistent, year after year.

    Marchionne pretended that these studies were useless, canceled them, and the result has been a steady decline in CDJR customer satisfaction rankings.

    Years ago I used to enjoy going to my CDJR dealership. But after being treated like sh*t in recent years, now I avoid them like the plague.
     
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  10. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    The multi-brand dealerships groups put their best persons, and develop their business, where their margin is higher.
    Don't think that in Europe there are no large groups of dealerships. Their size depends on the country (or group of countries).
    The advantage in Europe is that any company can sell whatever new car brand they want, even without affiliation / franchising / ... with the automotive manufacturer.

    The largest company is the swiss Emil Frey that in 2019 sold 150k new whosale vehicles + 300k retail vehicles + 200k used ones for a total of 650k (450k new and 200k used).
    Emil Frey has vehicles from 42 brands, 830 franchise points.

    Second is Penske Automotive, 21 brands, 199 franchise points, sold new 95k + 165k used = 260k. They now are focalized for most in premium brands. For example in Italy they have about 15 - 20 dealerships for Audi, BMW, Mini, Jaguar, Land Rover, Lamborghini, Mercedes, Smart, Porsche, Volvo and Maserati.
    But a clients could not even know that they are buying from Penske Automotive.

    Lookers (UK and Ireland) 32 brands, 164 franchise points, 120k new, 98k used.
    Pendagron (UK), sells cars under two main companies for new vehicles, 11 brands with one (Eval Halshaw - Citroen, Dacia, DAF, DS, Ford, Hyundai, Kia, Nissan, Peugeot, Renault, SEAT and Vauxhall) and 10 with another (Stratstone - Aston Martin, BMW, Ferrari, Jaguar, Land Rover, Mercedes-Benz, MINI, Porsche, and Smart and Harley-Davidson motorcycles).
    Arnold Clark (UK) has 26 brands, Inchcape Europe UK) has 16 brands.

    And so on ... There are some that sell for most whosale new vehicles, for example the D’Ieteren Auto (Belgium), 8th as revenues, that for most sell new whosale 120k new vehicles + 12k new retail from 8 brands of VW Group.

    Since investments for electrification in Europe automotive companies are trying to reduce the spread between price of vehicle to client and their own revenue => larger dealerships companies + alternative channels.

    In Europe already 1/4 of sales is done to rental companies (long term rent instead of purtchase). Many manufacturers have their own company (FCA has Leasys (50%) + financial services (FCA owns 50% of FCA Bank).
     
    #70 MJAB, May 11, 2020
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
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  11. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    IMHO: because (1) of how FCA treats individual dealers --i.e., sh*t rolls downhill; and (2) poor training.

    In my brief experience with my local Toyota dealer I noticed several differences right away: although I interacted with several salespeople, I noticed Toyota offered a more standardized, professional customer treatment; and all salespeople reverted back to one centralized source of information on their computers. The better the dissemination of information, the lower the chances for screw ups.
     
  12. Max Wedge

    Max Wedge Well-Known Member

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    I believe it was Sergio himself that stated if it wasn't for Dodge or FCA NA Alfa would likely not be here oh wait that architecture FCA was suppose to share is going on 5 years or so and forget Dodge no other brand has yet to get their version. Seems like a waste of money. Especially when the few cars that actually use it dont sell very well.
     
  13. Doug D

    Doug D Virginia Gentleman

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    When I first purchased my '06 Ram 1500 in September 2006 the service my CDJR dealership was very good. Now at best, the truck only sees the dealership once a year (annual state safety inspection which there is no charge since I purchased the vehicle there). It gives me a chance to wander around the showroom and the lot. Maybe talk to some of the sales staff if they aren't too busy. Occasionally I'll wrangle a test drive out of one of them. The last few times no sales people bothered to walk out and see if I needed assistance.

    The sales staff has had significant turnover in those 14 years I've had the truck. Only one or two of the service writers are still there. The rest are new.

    We've bought three vehicles there - the Ram, a 2009 Journey SXT in March 2008 and a used 2010 Journey SXT in 2011. Each sales transaction was through a different sales person. The previous ones had moved on. Don't know if we'll buy from there again - I just don't have a good vibe from them anymore. Maybe it's just me. Definitely won't be a "new" purchase next time around anyway. By the time I'm ready (about 2.5 years), retirement will be within shouting distance I don't want a huge car payment to worry about when I retire. Plus we had a good sales experience with CarMax - no fuss or dickering around - decide on a vehicle, take a test drive, arrange financing (we did it through our CU), and drive away with a nearly new vehicle. The only hitch is finding what you want in the right color with the right options.

    My only pet peeve with all dealerships is the ridiculously high processing fee they are now charging. My dealership was charging $569 last I checked. CarMax was more reasonable at $299. In Virginia there is no legal limitation - they can charge whatever they want.
     
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  14. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    My local CDJR dealer is the second highest-selling dealership in town: the Toyota dealer is top with about 200-250 sales/month; the CDJR dealer is 2nd with about 100 sales/month; and it goes down from there. So given the strong volume you would think the CDJR dealer is a desirable place to work. However in the 3 years I have been in this town, I have been through 4 service advisors. The first one left to go to a Ford dealership; the 2nd and 3rd left under mysterious circumstances; the 4th S.A. was such a dimwit that got me into an argument with the service manager. At that point I stopped going there altogether.

    My point is: for a dealer with large volume to be unable to retain people suggests what a crapshoot must be to work there. And there is no way unhappy staff can provide satisfactory service to customers.
     
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  15. turbonetic

    turbonetic Active Member

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    This is why I wonder why they're even merging at all. IMO it's just going to be more brands for Jeep and the trucks to support
     
  16. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    PSA makes good profits in Europe, and the effect of this merger on the average US CJDR customer will be pretty much nothing. None of PSA's brands will appear in the US market, and I'm fairly confident in predicting that none of their products will either, given that they cannot accommodate an engine of above 1.6 litres displacement.
     
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  17. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    I had decided to keep my vehicles longer. Now with this pandemic, I plan to keep them well past their warranty expiration. So I just need FCA to honor its commitments.

    If all this merger brings us is a renewed zeal for product quality and customer treatment, I am fine with that.
     
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  18. freshforged

    freshforged Well-Known Member

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    Current PSA offerings are not well positioned for the US market. As the auto market transitions from ICE to electric traction motors, however, the combined research/buying power of FCA and PSA will bring huge dividends. At this point, you might see more parts sharing across the product lines.
     
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  19. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    There will definitely be parts-sharing and R&D pooling. Right now I would say that FCA is actually ahead of PSA on electrification, but I think that the USA will be the last major economy to embrace electric cars, for a variety of reasons (some cultural and financial, but most geographical).
     
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  20. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    My dealership has not changed at all since 2006, for better or for worse. Except that they brought in free coffee, and when the machine broke, stopped having free coffee ;)

    However - everyone who was there in 2006 is there today. They seem to have absolutely zero turnover. Most employees have over 20 years under their belts. It makes a huge difference in service. Sales is still about as bad as it gets, but better (more honest) in my experience than the Honda of Tenafly, Honda of Paramus, and Toyota of Hackensack dealerships. As I leave this immediate area, the dealerships dramatically improve in sales ability. I attribute that partly to dealership age.

    If you need your car fixed, absolutely to go to Teterboro. Great score on fixing it right the first time. Honest service manager and advisors. Trusted by Chrysler. Unfortunately it means you really should buy your cars there too, but that's not an every-year experience!
     
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