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FCA quality: lousy scores

Discussion in 'Mopar News and Rumors' started by valiant67, Feb 22, 2017.

  1. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather Level III Supporter

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  2. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather Level III Supporter

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  3. Mr. Fusion

    Mr. Fusion Member Level 2 Supporter

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    So, Jaguar is more reliable than Infiniti or Mitsubishi. Really. And Infiniti is somehow less reliable than Nissan, even though it is Nissan (with better equipment).

    I know we're just going to hash-out the same old arguments in this thread, but this survey is no better than when (for example) CR reports the 300 as being far more reliable than the Charger, or the Lincoln MKS having different results than the Ford Taurus. There is just something fundamentally wonky about these things.
     
    djsamuel, PCRMike, Prabhjot and 3 others like this.
  4. Mike V.

    Mike V. Moderator

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    This is exactly why I have continuously questions the ratings and, quite frankly, don't believe the findings any longer.

    Mike
     
  5. patfromigh

    patfromigh Active Member

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    Is it too late to keep on blaming Doug Betts?
     
  6. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave Staff Member Supporter

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    Doug Betts never had the power to make a difference, it’s like blaming a UAW guy for the BlueTooth module failing.

    My own cars match the JD Power experiences — okay, they’re actually worse. But I don’t have any 2013 Toyotas or whatever, so I can’t compare.

    I think Larry was probably quite on target in his assignment of blame, though there’s a lot of things you can look at. Even here, remember when they kept making Pentastar heads for new engines while customers had their cars sitting, waiting for heads, in garages? That tells you their priorities.

    I think it may be time for them to slow down, and think about what they’re doing. When everything is an emergency, nobody has time to think, and bad things happen. Now and then people have to stop and reflect — and rest.

    PS> Mac users, remember OS 10.6 and how well received it was — and how many people are still trying to use it? That was an entire OS designed to do nothing but fix the issues that cropped up from trying to do too much, too quickly, from OS 10.0 to 10.5. IMHO, 10.6 was the first real production version of OS X. (Maybe the last, too ;) )
     
  7. Chase300

    Chase300 Member

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    Well my '14 Citadel Hemi with 46K is sitting at the dealership waiting for a water pump....apparently on national back order.
    Compare to my 185K 300C Hemi is still running the factory installed water pump as is my '01 Durango 4.7L with 355K miles on it.

    So sure seems to me FCA changed water pump vendors and went with a much lower quality one.
     
  8. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave Staff Member Supporter

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    I suspect most of the time FCA chose better vendors than Daimler and Cerberus, but ... hands up those who have had to replace their UConnect modules? (in my case, both Dart and 300.)
     
    UN4GTBL likes this.
  9. Illegal Machine

    Illegal Machine Member

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    For me it's the sunroofs. Much rattle.
     
  10. aldo90731

    aldo90731 Active Member Level III Supporter

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    I hear a tone of frustration in Larry's write up.

    I am personally dealing with this. The warranty on my 2013 Rubicon expired in early January; a week later the GPS died; a week after that the stability control light started coming on for no reason. Yesterday, after driving 1,300 miles back from Canada the Jeep wouldn't start 100 miles from home.

    I haven't owned an out-of-warranty Chrysler/FCA product since I was in college. At the rate this is going, I may have to choose between fixing it, trade it in for a new FCA vehicle, or sell it for a non-FCA product.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
  11. aldo90731

    aldo90731 Active Member Level III Supporter

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    I worked on the JDPA studies years ago and, while not perfect, they give you a good read on what consumers encounter.

    The problem is not the data, but JDPA's insistence to rank scores that are not statistically different. If 300 being above Charger gives you pause, you can take the JDPA rankings and make three piles: Top, Average and Poor. Even by those standards FCA is still at the bottom.

    FCA can deny the data and pretend there's no problem, or they can admit they have a problem and work to fix it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
  12. Mr. Fusion

    Mr. Fusion Member Level 2 Supporter

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    I think the post-failure experience is a huge part of this, moreso than the actual failure or breakdown itself. This would also explain why a Lincoln MKS owner may be more satisfied with his car than a Ford Taurus owner. Both cars may have the same issues, but the Lincoln owner is treated better by the dealer.

    I am not suggesting that FCA overlook the actual reliability issues in any way...but hypothetically if they could only spend money on one thing, it should be the dealer service and parts experience for when things do go wrong. From a customer experience standpoint, they would get more bang for their buck.
     
  13. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather Level III Supporter

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    Well we all know the service experience sucks. Wait times for parts seems to be growing longer. It's as if who ever does parts planning makes no allowance for spares.
    When things go wrong, it's more difficult than necessary.
     
  14. aldo90731

    aldo90731 Active Member Level III Supporter

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    True, there are ways to make a quality problem sting less with better customer service, but it can only do so much.

    The opposite is also true: if you need to keep bringing the vehicle back for problems, at some point you don't care how nice they are about it, you just want the thing fixed.
     
  15. Mr. Fusion

    Mr. Fusion Member Level 2 Supporter

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    Two honest questions, in light of your experience:

    1. Do the JDP surveys have a way of accounting for confirmation bias?

    2. What do you think of the TrueDelta approach?

    Not being a member, I believe the TrueDelta survey asks one question: "Did you need to take your vehicle in for an unscheduled service in the last quarter?" And if Yes, then they rank the problems into two categories: "The problem rendered the car inoperable", or "The problem did not render the car inoperable". Now, that is reasonable and valuable information to me.

    The only problem, as TrueDelta will admit, is that for certain vehicles their sample sizes are just too small to be statistically valid. (I also believe that is a problem with CR, but they do not admit it.) I wish TD would get bought by a larger organization that can broaden their scope to be as wide as that of JDP.
     
    UN4GTBL and Prabhjot like this.