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Ferrari threatens to quit Formula if it becomes like NASCAR

Discussion in 'Motorsports / Racing News' started by Fast Eddie, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. Beentherebefore

    Level III Supporter

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  2. Muther

    Muther Well-Known Member

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    What Ferrari doesn’t like is a spec series in any way. They want to maintain “uniqueness” in their powertrain, and Chassis. They are the only make that has been there since the beginning, that also makes their own engines AND chassis.

    For Ferrari to have to build a “Ferrari” engine and a “Ferrari” chassis that is identical to another maker’s engine and chassis is unthinkable. Ferrari’s are unique. If the Ferrari F1 car was anything less than their own design, it would no longer be a Ferrari. Ferraris must be unique.

    If F1 did that, it would cease to be F1, and nobody would blame Ferrari for leaving.

    They are all in with the concept of controlling the cost, but not at the expense of Ferrari losing it’s identity.
     
    MPE426HEMI, danbek and dodgeismycar like this.
  3. Beentherebefore

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    Is that what is being proposed? Then it would be similar to Nascar where each manufacturer builds their own motors but are basically "boxed in" by the specifications that Nascar designates. As most Nascar followers know, Nascar has required a spec chassis for almost 40 years - originally so that outside chassis shops could manufacture them (supposedly would keep costs down) and also so that safety features would be standardized.
     
  4. Muther

    Muther Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think anyone outside of Liberty Media and the team principles really know for sure what is up for bid relative the 2020 rules. I am guessing based on what I have read here and there.

    The big issues for Liberty Media is competition. F1 has been a two car series for the last three or four years. Each race tends to be “watch the pole sitter in lead being followed by #2, and #3 starters”.

    In Indy car, it is anybody’s ballgame. The entire top two thirds of the grid have a legit shot at walking away with the big trophy. In F1 we all know, before the teams even arrive at the track, who is going to win, who is finishing second, and most times, who is finishing third. The races are nothing more than watching the grid do “hot laps”.

    THAT is what Liberty media wants to change. They also want to control costs, they want each team to be able to spend a certain amount of money, and that’s it.

    All the teams that make their own stuff desperately want Liberty media to make it so they have the freedom to design the car they want (like Ferrari has said). They also want to control costs. Some of the teams (Mercedes, go figure) DON’T want a level playing field, some do (Ferrari).

    It is all a bunch of politics by a bunch of pantywaisted rich boys with more money than sense.

    I grew up loving F1. I used to love watching it as a kid. In the eighties it began to get a lot less competitive. Now, i can tell you before the season begins, with about an 95% success rate, who will win which race.

    THAT is the big g problem. The paintywaists just disagree on how to fix it.

    (And for anyone that disagrees with me about F1 being pantywaists, go ask Juan Pablo Montoya what he thinks-he thinks the same as I do.)
     
  5. dodgeismycar

    dodgeismycar Active Member

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    As to the predicted results, the last 3 years has been the Mercedes show and nobody did anything to even the field. Liberty could have added some type of restrictions this year, but they did not. At least NASCAR would find a modification to slow down the dominant car make (except this year). Nascar has become like F1.
     
  6. Muther

    Muther Well-Known Member

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    In F1, it is unheard of to punish the fastest car. It is the responsibility of the other teams to catch up to and pass the dominant team. It would cease tuntil be F1 if they restricted a team.

    That is the conundrum. How do you control costs, improve competition, and allow design freedom all at the same time?
     
  7. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    The problem with Formula 1 started exactly when FIA / Bernie Ecclestone decided to lower expenses. Who they made it?
    - no more free practices to development of cars
    - "freezing" the development of some components (like the engines) after one or two seasons or using limited "development tokens"
    - allowing some teams, but not others, to illegally use "gray zones" of technical rules
    - and for last technical rules allowing Mercedes to know the rules many time before the others (someone says put their hands on how where written). Why? Because Daimler some years ago said if they had no wins in few time they would leave the competition.
    + illegal test of Pirelli tyres

    Consequences of the above:

    - no free practice for development -> most of development is made using computer simulations, but also very expensive dynamic test benchs.
    For example the Vehicle Track Test, first used by Red Bull, dynamic test bench made by AVL for Ferrari in 2015 have a cost of around Euro 40 million. It is not part of a wind tunnel (wind tunnel hours were limited for budget reasons some years ago as well as computation time), but is for testing the car with all mechanical parts attached, suspensions, .... it runs and moves on the test bench.

    - "freezing" development of some parts = more money spent on other to maximize performances of that parts

    - technical rules violation allowed to some teams = You have Mercedes being allowed to burn oil in last years when the fuel is limited and no additional additives a are allowed other than the ones in the fuel. Today a F1 car burns, after some restrictions, about 98% of gasoline fuel and 2% of oil.

    - the illegal system to control hydraulically the height of the car, banned before this season start (was illegal also last year, but Mercedes and Red Bull used it) was recently used again by Red Bull and partially by Mercedes.
    Why? The head of technical FIA engineer left his place to move next year to Renault, he was the one stopping Red Bull and Mercedes illegal suspension control systems.
     
    #8 MJAB, Nov 6, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  8. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

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    I agree with them, if that is the case. Nobody wants a spec car! It puts all the emphasis on the driver alone and that is what I don't want to see. Each manufacturers' efforts with their vehicles is what interests me the most. And it's where we get new tech developed, it's full time R&D, not when somebody says it can be done. If it ends up being Nascar-like, I won't spend another minute watching. I am so over Nascar, I'd rather watch WWE and that's saying something. Spec=boring!
     
  9. Beentherebefore

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    That's becoming the holy grail of virtually all major motorsports series.
     
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  10. dodgeismycar

    dodgeismycar Active Member

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    Innovation and the desire to beat the other guys, drove manufacturers to build better motors and such. That's why we have the privilege of driving Hemi's.
     
    DC-93, Dodgeguy1961 and MPE426HEMI like this.
  11. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

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    Exactly!
     
  12. Meester Beeg

    Meester Beeg Active Member

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    Axe Montoya? Do you mean na$car hit the emergency vehicle Montoya?
     

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