Hello, Allpar Forums member or visitor! If you were a member, you would not see this ad!

Register or log in at the top right of the page...

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Fiat ARGO: the 'new Punto' (x6h) for LatAm

Discussion in 'Fiat News & Rumors' started by Prabhjot, Apr 20, 2017.

  1. Prabhjot

    Prabhjot Active Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,334
    Likes:
    1,281
    https://www.noticiasautomotivas.com.br/fiat-argo-e-o-nome-do-novo-hatch-medio-da-marca/

    The launch PR and marketing for this vital new model has begun.

    The model replaces in the very profitable (even in and through the severe Brazilian+Argentinian recessions there over the last few years) FIAT Palio as well as the latam Punto.

    It launches there in May, apparently, and will feature both the cutting edge new Firefly GSE engines as well premium feel, feature set, fit finish, materials etc (relative to the Brazilian market, now recovering, as is the Argentine one.) Safer, yet lighter and roomier than the famous but aged models Palio and Punto it FINALLY replaces.

    This model will also see large exports to Mexico, and to Chile.

    The sedan sibling will be made in Cordoba, Argentina, which has recieved investment of 500 million us$ apparently: the 'new Grand Sienna' (x6s), also a model that wil see good demand in mexico albeit as a dodge?

    FCA has used the Brazilian recession well: focussing on premiumizing its offer there via the Jeep renegade and compass and the hit new pckup the FIAT Toro, all made at the all-new susw pernambuco wcm (gold i think?) plant.

    There will apparently also be other siblings to this Fiat ARGO ('latam' platform). A pickup to replace the Strada/Ram 700 (x6p), a JEEP badged b-suv below the Renegade and/or a FIAT badged b-cuv.

    Brazil, Argentina and Mexico have free trade agreements in place, so.

    This model in rhd form was intended as of the earlier 2013/14 plan also for India, as was the x6s and the Fiat cuv.

    It appears that that's been entirely ditched, FIAT may soon be withdrawn from the Indian market, in favour of the Jeep Compass (also for rhd exports), rhd Renegades and/or the x6h-based Jeep b-suv for emerging markets (sub-renegade.)

    Probably because India would've been its only rhd or non-latam market (as 'Fiat') while, instead, in Jeep spec and name and design the rhd x6h is also quite exportable.
     
    #1 Prabhjot, Apr 20, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  2. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,485
    Likes:
    2,633
    The page anticipating the name is this one: #DescubraArgo (at http://argo.fiat.com.br/ )

    " Argo. Este é o nome do mais novo lançamento da Fiat. Um carro pensado do zero, em cada um dos seus detalhes. O mais completo hatch premium do mercado que consolida o novo momento da marca no Brasil. Com muito conforto e tecnologia, você vai descobrir novos sentidos, experiências e prazeres. Aguarde!"
     
  3. Erik Latranyi

    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    10,672
    Likes:
    9,826
    No details yet you.proclaim it to be a premium offering.....let us wait for details please
     
  4. T_690

    T_690 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,085
    Likes:
    1,211
    I doubt they will keep it if it comes to Europe. In that case my bets are on Uno.
     
  5. T_690

    T_690 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,085
    Likes:
    1,211
    We know recent direction of Fiat in Brazil. You can disagree.
     
  6. Erik Latranyi

    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    10,672
    Likes:
    9,826
    That is fine. But Fiat is not seen as a premium offering in Brazil. They are trying to reposition Fiat in the market after it was established as an economy brand.

    I am not saying that they cant do this, but it is a big hill to climb.....and the Brazilian economy is still in the toilet.
     
    Prabhjot likes this.
  7. T_690

    T_690 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,085
    Likes:
    1,211
    I will not describe Fiat as premium but maybe as a more upscale than it is now.

    They are trying to keep prices slightly up. That's OK and with that they can counter lower volume.

    Maybe Mobi is a good example. Of-course most likely average Brazilian will want larger car for that price. But mostly it's describes as a good assembled car with no rattles which is not characteristic of Brazilian made cars.

    Also in new GSE they have class leading engine in fuel economy.

    This Argo is interesting. It needs to replace not one but maybe even three cars. Palio, Punto and Bravo. How would you describe Brazilian Punto and Bravo? Certainly they were not cheap for Brazilians.

    For me the worst offering there is Brazilian Uno. I don't know what will they do with it. It's old and overweight.
     
    Prabhjot likes this.
  8. Prabhjot

    Prabhjot Active Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,334
    Likes:
    1,281
    yes, well true enough except for THE essential thing: economy or not FIAT has made large margins in Brazil while other firms have lost money hand over fist, so much so that fca brazil has actually gotten through the deep deep Brazilian+Argentinian recessions with no (accumulated) losses, much more than can be said of say Cherolet/gm, say FORD, etc.

    Brazilian FIATs (as Ram and as dodges as well as FIATs) have sold growingly well in Mexico too over the last year or two.

    And that is with such 'old' models, even as fca latam was focussed on the Pernambuco susw 'more premium' models and brands (Toro, Renegade, Compass: all new and all more or less #1 by a distance in their segments), and keeping powder dry during the nasty recessions.

    The questions to me are:

    (a) will this model be deployed in rhd format in india, as the original plan had it? And the x6s? And the FIAT cuv sibling? I fear not: fca i india could be all-in with Jeep+exports therefof+MagnetiMarelli, instead. Sad, sad: given histrory.

    (b) will this model see a cuv version as FIAT? And as some sort of emerging-markets JEEP? The latter: for India+Asia, esp, as well?

    (c) will this model be offered in europe, perhaps only in some cuv form? Related to or in the form of the nextgen Panda/Cross for 2019/2020? And/Or as an a/b micro-Jeep?
     
    ScramFan likes this.
  9. Erik Latranyi

    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    10,672
    Likes:
    9,826
    It depends what generation of Punto and Bravo.....there are many old ones being strung together.

    The Brazilian auto market is a combination of Italy and Hungary.....favoritism for the home team by new buyers and a cheap means of transportation by used buyers.

    Given the weak economy currently in Brazil, there will be very few new buyers and many used buyers.
     
    Prabhjot likes this.
  10. Prabhjot

    Prabhjot Active Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,334
    Likes:
    1,281
    Brazil, despite and/or partly-because-of the Lula/Workers'Party years, is still a highly unequal society (wealth, income and credit access/rates etc), and one with very constrained consumer credit availability too (relatively speaking.) The same with Argentina.

    And so imo fca's recent attempts (very successfully, via the Toro, and locally made Jeeps) to move 'up' the income/credit ladder as it were in terms of who it addresses is the right one: in terms of market/economic demographics imo.

    The new brazilian FIATs (and Jeeps: mobi, toro, facelifted uno, renegade, soon compass....) seem to be selling well in a rebounding Argentina and in Mexico too (given currency-depreciation chaos in recent times, including with the peso vis-a-vis the us$ very recently.)

    imo, all else being equal: the x6h, the x6s and its cuv spinoffs (FIAT and/or Jeep-badged-and-specced) are likely to be HUGE for fca latam, and fca-as-a-whole, given that an economic rebound is well underway in argentina, mexico and even brazil now.

    Including, who knows, exports to europe at some soon point in some form, say as a 'Jeepster' or 'Jeepinho' a/b-suv?
     
  11. Hank600ES

    Hank600ES Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Messages:
    549
    Likes:
    364
    Umm, not Punto?
     
  12. Deckard_Cain

    Deckard_Cain Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    428
    Likes:
    671
    I think premium in Brasil has a different conotation. It means that it will have more confort equipment that is still not common in most brasilian cars from the subcompact segment. Things like electric assisted steering, start-stop system, AC, alarm, etc.
     
    Prabhjot likes this.
  13. romalerig

    romalerig Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Messages:
    439
    Likes:
    485
    Teaser:

     
    Prabhjot and AlfaCuda like this.
  14. Prabhjot

    Prabhjot Active Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,334
    Likes:
    1,281
    Seems to have styling more like the a-cuv in brazil, the new MOBI, than like the european+turkish Tipo? Chunkier, beefier, outsized headlamps, etc.

    I suppose they want it to also do well as a 'cross' (raised suspension, bigger wheels + claddings etc) or 'adventure' version, a sub-genre of the hatchback space that does very well in Brazil and elsewhere in latam i believe?

    The word from sources on the Brazilian auto internet is that this hatch will not get a seperate cuv version with same platform and engines. Instead Jeep will get the platform+engines 'suv' twin, sub-Renegade of course.

    India, which was supposed until the apparent but undeclared recent ditching of the 2014 India plans to get the ARGO and the x6s ('new grand Sienna-cum-Linea') will surely also get for local manufacture and exports (rhd) that JEEP b-suv from this 'latam' platform.

    As will Europe, i suppose, twinned to the next gen Panda cross??
     
    Medicin-Man and AlfaCuda like this.
  15. v.b.

    v.b. Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2013
    Messages:
    600
    Likes:
    319
    At 12 seconds there is a glimpse of the back with new lettering. Just the FIAT letters.

    V
     
  16. Prabhjot

    Prabhjot Active Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,334
    Likes:
    1,281
    The a-hatch/cuv in Brazil, the new MOBI, has the big bold ('classical' FIAT: art deco are they?) letters, too, on the rear (all or mostly glass) hatch.

    It's a great touch imo, retro/classic etc, and they should apply it on euro FIATs too in the future.
     
  17. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2017
    Messages:
    667
    Likes:
    966
    I know I hold the minority viewpoint on this, but I think a version of the "B" Sub-Renegade should be made available in North America as a sort of entry-level model. After all.....If the company isn't going to field an entry in the affordably priced compact and midsize sedan segments, they really ought to have something to sell as a "starter vehicle".
     
  18. Prabhjot

    Prabhjot Active Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,334
    Likes:
    1,281
    Why? The way everyone who knows says the usa used car market is going (cars coming off-lease, prices dipping etc) foreseeably for at least the next year or 2 or 3, why would fca need a loss-leading/starter-vehicle? Unless the dealers absolutely need such a model for purely financial reasons, which hopefully and likely will not be the case?

    About the Jeep version of the FIAT Argo: i wonder whether they'll be exported to Europe, where it absolutely should be offered, from Brazil and/or India OR made in Poland for eg alongside the nextgen Panda?

    And the ARGO itself? The old rumour that it will appear in Europe soon as well, as a new 'UNO' (i.e., a smaller TIPO, like the earlier uno+Tipo were related styling and size wise) is still alive, even though M himself said there will be no Punto replacement at all in the cut-throat european b-hatchback space. It's hard to believe the Argo will be offered in the eu as an 'uno', when there's a new Panda and Panda Cross + new 500 + a Jeep b-suv too coming there by 2019 or thereabouts. Cannot see what purpose it would serve, beside just cannibilizing sales of other FIATs. FIAT in europe could surely use the new TORO + a cuv version of it (susw), though (from Brazil?)
     
  19. Erik Latranyi

    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    10,672
    Likes:
    9,826
    You make this mistake of thinking small=low price.
     
    Dave Z likes this.
  20. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2017
    Messages:
    667
    Likes:
    966
    You have a point. I guess I got trapped into the old thinking of small = low price.

    I was just trying to think of something that could help re-capture at least a little of the lost showroom traffic caused by the cancellation of Dart and 200. I think there is something to be said for a vehicle that could get folks into the dealerships......where then the sales folks can do their thing.
     

Share This Page

Loading...
Terms of use and privacy policy. We are not affiliated with FCA. We make no claims regarding validity or accuracy of information or advice. Custom material copyright © 2001-2017 Allpar LLC.