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Fiat ARGO: the 'new Punto' (x6h) for LatAm

Discussion in 'Fiat News & Rumors' started by Prabhjot, Apr 20, 2017.

  1. AlfaCuda

    AlfaCuda Active Member

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    Saying no Punto replacement possibly has a similar meaning to saying no Bravo replacement. Just as they dusted out an old name for the Tipo there could be a similar strategy for the Argo (Uno?) to enter Europe, I think. Export from Brazil makes sense.

    The styling is interesting. Builds on the Tipo theme to my eyes.

    @Prabhjot for the 124 I would think the only extension would be a coupe version.
     
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  2. KrisW

    KrisW Active Member

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    Yes. Somewhere between 500X and 500 in size. (Mini Cooper, maybe?)
     
  3. Deckard_Cain

    Deckard_Cain Active Member

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    There's multiple contradictions. A new B-segment (subcompact) replacement for the Punto is present in the calendar of new launches. But then multiple statements by Marchionne and Altavilla call that into question.
    As is usual with FCA, you never know untill it is actually launched. However, there were also serious doubts that the Tipo would be sold in Europe, and here we are today with the Tipo having great sales numbers.

    Also the Argo is exactly the type of car where Fiat's expertise shines. I mean, the first Punto sold 580,000 cars in its first year at launch (1998), the second-gen 550,000 and this last generation 400,000 when it launched in 2006.
    Compare that to nowadays, it sells 60,000... And the B-segment is the biggest segment in Europe!
    They NEED this car in Europe. Priced just above the Panda this car would probably sell around 200,000 units per year in Europe.

    I'm not sure it is recomendable for the US. It is a subcompact and those barely sell over there. It only has 4 meters of length and 300L of boot space.
     
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  4. AlfaCuda

    AlfaCuda Active Member

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    From a "source"

    Unofficial measurements:

    Length: 4.00 m
    Width: 1.72 m
    Height: 1.49 m
    Wheelbase: 2.52 m
    Luggage compartment: 300L
     
  5. page2171

    Level 2 Supporter

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    I would consider it if they brought it to North America.
     
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  6. Erik Latranyi

    Level III Supporter

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    You do realize this is smaller than a 500X, right? That is a small market in the US.
     
  7. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    Fiat Argo size should be like a Fiat Punto that, for the ones living in U.S.A., has the size of a Ford Fiesta.
     
  8. Prabhjot

    Prabhjot Active Member

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    Marchionne's keener on the new, next gen Panda+500 (2019+?), and it seems another Jeep b-cuv+new PandaCross for Europe, it seems. These last 2 models could be closely related, development-wise-in-Brazil-and-India and architecture+engines wise to the ARGO?

    imo the FIAT brand in europe needs a susw Tipo-philosophy-like c/d-cuv vastly more than a Punto replacement. new FIAT Freemont, as it were. Soon.

    Such a model IS under development, for years now it seems (RVC confirmed that to me 2 years ago.) I guess it'll appear a year if not three after the Compass does (hopefully/surely: well!) in Europe this year. Hands amply full with the new Alfa-s, new Maserati-s and Jeeps. Plus Tipo trio+500X+124 Spider. The vans business. The now being pushed hard 'Fleet' business line in Europe, etc?
     
  9. Deckard_Cain

    Deckard_Cain Active Member

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    Sorry, but I disagree. Fiat really needs something new in the B-segment. And this Argo fits the bill. Fiat sold hundreds of thousand of B-segment small cars in Europe.
    Historically it was always the king of that segment in Europe and other brands have shown that you can profit from it. Most recently Citroen.

    And it's beyond moronic even for Marchionne and Altavilla if FCA spent hundreds of millions developing the Argo solely for the latin-american market.
     
  10. page2171

    Level 2 Supporter

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    I do realize that, and for that reason don't expect it to come to the U.S. I've been driving a 2001 Nissan March/Micra here in Okinawa for three years, so the Argo would be a step up for me. That being said, once I get back to the U.S. I'm sure I will get accustomed to the hugeness of American cars again, and will want something larger.
     
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  11. KrisW

    KrisW Active Member

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    I think that's acclimitization... Whenever I'd travel to California on work, it always took me a couple of days to get used to the size of car I was driving (midsize, and occasionally full-size). But once it passed, I'd start thinking about how unsuitable my own car would be in that kind of driving environment: firm suspension and short wheelbase is great for smooth surfaces with bends, but on mile after mile of CalTran's best brushed concrete freeway I wouldn't have any teeth left... (Then when I'd get home I'd go through the reverse process: my own car would seem to have hair-trigger brakes, hyperactive steering and no pickup from standstill)

    Anyway, if @AlfaCuda's source is correct, Argo is pretty much the exact same size as the current Punto (Argo is 10cm/4" longer, but only 1cm longer in wheelbase, and Punto is 2.5cm/1" taller)
     
  12. somber

    somber 370,000 miles
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    Put in the new 280HP 2.0L I4 and a manual transmission, and this would be a blast to drive.
     
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  13. Prabhjot

    Prabhjot Active Member

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    Wider than the punto? Also: longer wheelbase (i.e., roomier in the rear) and lighter yet stiffer+safer chassis.

    @Deckard_Cain

    Nobody (well, maybe hyundai and Kia, maybe Suzuki?) makes any sustained money in the European b-hatch segment in Europe, afaik.

    imo the Tipo is about as far as Marchionne's willing to go on 'commoditised' car lines in europe, and for that too, apparently: he was self-confessedly very reluctant-to. Gave in he said to the persuasions of Altavilla and o francois (head of the FIAT brand.)

    Pricing and discounting is extreme in the b- and even c-hatch/sedan/sw 'mainstream' space in Europe, meaning that the Argo will likely just cannibalize other models' sales. besides, one doubts the Argo would meet EuroNcap high-enough crash standards?

    FIAT should do another 'white space' like entry in europe, instead. Namely: a new susw Tipo-related new Freemont-like model? A 124 nameplate 'brand extension' (the original 124 came in sedan form too, after all), perhaps twinned to the next gen Alfa Giulietta (fwd)?

    And then there is the Jeep-branded sub-renegade b-suv, apparently related closely to the latam FIAT Argo and the x6s, after all? This last has been confirmed for Indian-manufacture and exports, too (rhd.) It'll make a compelling offering in going-small-cuv-crazy Europe, alongside the next PandaCross (2019/2020?)

    The Argo and the sedan version as well as a cuv version had been planned for rhd localized manufacture in India. BUT: that plan has been completely ditched, it seems. All localized JEEPs here foreseeably. Much as it grieves me to admit it: fca india is very right-to, because for eg large exports are possible for the Jeeps (including the Jeep 'project 526', closely related to the ARGO) but not for the Argo/'new Grand Sienna' in rhd format.

    Likewise fca brazil could and should indeed export to Europe say the Toro and/or the Jeep '526' sibling of the Argo rather than say the Argo='new Punto' itself.
     
  14. Deckard_Cain

    Deckard_Cain Active Member

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    Dacia is one of the most profitable brands in Europe and they have B-segment cars.
    The new Citroen C3 is a huge success and is also making money as well. It's possible to get profit in that segment but they need the produciton and development costs down.
     
  15. james.mooney.

    james.mooney. The Poster Formerly Known As "Bethlumboy"

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    I actually think that the styling of the Argo and the Tipo would have greater acceptance in the US than that of the 500 family.

    However, they would have to compete pricewise with vehicles like the Fiesta and the Focus, meaning that they would almost certainly have to be built in Mexico in order to be profitable (depending upon what happens with NAFTA).

    If FCA had excess capacity in Mexico, perhaps a business case could be made (again, if the trade agreements remain largely unchanged). Such excess capacity in Mexico is a possibility: if assembly of the NA 500, Journey replacements, and HD Ram trucks are moved to other plants (Tychy, Poland; Belvidere, Illinois and Cassino, Italy; and Warren, Michigan, respectively), two FCA assembly plants in Mexico (Toluca and Saltillo Truck) would be left with only one product to produce: the SUSW Jeep Compass. The Mexican plants, along with the Compass, Argo, and Tipo, could also build high-tech, hybrid small cars for the Chrysler brand-- some of which could even be shipped to Europe along with the Compass, perhaps as Chryslers or, alternatively, as Fiats or even Lancias.

    If a business case could be made to produce the Argo and Tipo in Mexico, it could signal a new strategy for the Fiat brand in the US. They could be positioned less as a chic boutique brand and as more of an affordable mainstream brand competing with the entry level small car (B- and C-segment) offerings from Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Honda, etc. The Fiat brand could then move their points of sale out of the boutiques and into the main CDJR buildings for increased foot traffic. The boutiques could be closed, used solely for Alfa Romeo, or even converted into stand-alone Jeep dealerships or "Dodge Garages" (picture a Harley-Davidson dealership but instead of selling hogs, they'd be stocked with "R/Ts and Hellcats and Demons, oh my!").

    Fiat could still sell imported 124s, 500s, and 500Xs, but the Argo and Tipo would be the brand's volume models. A restyled 500L could be one of the Mexican-built hybrid Chrysler models (Chrysler Pop? Chrysler Pronto?), slotting in below the Portal and Pacifica as the baby MPV of the brand.
     
  16. james.mooney.

    james.mooney. The Poster Formerly Known As "Bethlumboy"

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    As for Europe: Argo, as an entry-level model, might be most feasible if it could be produced in Serbia, Poland, or Turkey. Importing it, even from Brazil, Argentina, or Mexico, might increase costs too much to be worth it.
     
  17. Deckard_Cain

    Deckard_Cain Active Member

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    I would rebadge the Tipo as a Dodge or Chrysler Neon, just how it is sold in Mexico in that case.
    I wouldn't even bring the Argo to the US because that segment barely sells anything. If they brought it then bring it as a Dodge or Chrysler again.
     
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  18. Lampredi

    Lampredi Active Member

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    Speaking of which - where is RVC? I suspect he was ousted from Allpar at the insistence of another forum member above him in pecking order, so to speak, though I've never had that confirmed, but it seems he's also disappeared from Autopareri. RVC's posts were the main thing that attracted me to Allpar in the first place.
     
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  19. Prabhjot

    Prabhjot Active Member

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    Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting (at http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=29fefc2&s=9 )

    The Argo top-end variant interior.

    Very Alfa Giulietta-inspired, it would seem. With elements a la renegade interior too. Completely unlike the current, new european FIATs (even the Tipo) or the Punto/Punto Evo, for eg. The tail-lamp led light signature is entirely Alfa Giulietta too.

    There are otherwise-strange, almost-cheeky mutual citations and quotations across brands nowadays at fca: the new 2018 Wrangler interior vis-a-vis this FIAT Argo one, for eg, the Toro vis-a-vis the Cherokee, the FIAT Mobi and Argo front and bonnett sculpturing vis-a-vis the Dodge Journey front-end, even the new deployment of very large FIAT lettering sans red/chrome-round-logo-frame on the Mobi and the Argo is to me a direct citation of the Jeep logo-as-just-3Dletters. The new Alfa taillamps inspired by last-gen+new-gen maserati ones, The Argo headlamp assembly-frontally shaped like the Jeep Grand Cherokee and new Compass front lamp one.

    etc
     
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  20. AlfaCuda

    AlfaCuda Active Member

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    Out in the wild. Looks keep getting better
     

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