Hello, Allpar Forums member or visitor! If you were a member, you would not see this ad!

Register or log in at the top right of the page...

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Fiat Chrysler in Talks With Hyundai on Partnership

Discussion in 'Mopar News' started by romalerig, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. freshforged

    freshforged Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,120
    Likes:
    1,318
    I see separate paths for mobile vs stationary battery solutions. Stationary need high capacity with lots of cycles and low cost. Mobile need to be light, compact, high capacity and cheap. Eventually the two paths may merge, depending on how the technology develops down the road, but right now lithium/sodium are better suited to stationary instillation, while lithium/polymer might be the preferred route for mobile application. But hey I am just an interested bystander, I might be out in left field for all I know.
    Fun stuff though!
     
  2. AC TC

    AC TC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,517
    Likes:
    344
    Hydrogen can work very well in areas were electricpower is abundant.
    - we can take Iceland as an example, no oil, no Wood but lots of geothermal/ hydro Power.
    Producing hydrogen would not only propell cars but also fishingboats and replace oil for industrial use.
    - hydrogen is a much used process "chemical" today, producing it is simple and a well known process.
    It also opens the path for producing fuel in sunny deserts and exporting it to the consumer.
    - dont calculate hydrogen out already..
     
    xjgary likes this.
  3. facelvega

    facelvega Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2017
    Messages:
    7
    Likes:
    6
    exactly hoydrogen is a policy decision for energy rich countries or those seeking energy independence like Japan. You build enough nuclear capacity to handle all the peaks and then add renewables also. Why you ask if nuclear already handles all potential demand? well, free hydrogen production. When demand is low you not only have your nuclear pumping its excess capacity into hydrogen but your (often unpredictable) renewables just make even more. This will be regional as current fuels are and will be driven by national interests, not the customer or car market. e.g. look at the current regional preferences for gas or diesel, LPG, LNG etc etc... Hydrogen isnt a catch-all but the fact it uses most of the same tech as a BEV means that FCA would be foolish to not partner with someone who has developed the unique bits they dont have
     
    xjgary likes this.
  4. serpens

    serpens Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    669
    Likes:
    583
    Used to. Nowadays road tests have shown the fuel economy to be bang on.
     
  5. adaptabl

    adaptabl Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    334
    Likes:
    218
    "I don't believe so".

    Is not no.

     
  6. adaptabl

    adaptabl Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    334
    Likes:
    218
    That would really be the correct partner. Let Hyundai do the car line. Chrysler do the Trucks and van. Now if they could just dump FIAT.
     
    randy1911 likes this.
  7. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2017
    Messages:
    679
    Likes:
    975
    I imagine a lot of folks here have been doing as I've been......poking around the web, doing some informal research on hydrogen energy in general, and more specifically....its use in motorized applications.

    While doing so.....I came across a review for the Hyundai Tuscon Hydrogen vehicle, and thought some of you might find it as interesting as I did.

    Is Hydrogen Fuel Cell the Future? with Hyundai ix35 Fuel Cell - YouTube
     
  8. pt006

    pt006 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,281
    Likes:
    490
    Lightweight hydrogen storage tanks that are reasonably priced should happen in the near future. The movement of hydrogen for long distances is a problem because of deterioration of the pipes.
     
  9. Muther

    Muther Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,559
    Likes:
    3,041
    Hydrogen is a waste of time.

    Once you (literally) do the math, that becomes obvious. Battery tech is exploding. Renewables are exploding. I cannot speak about what my employer has on the drawing boards (math is done, the hard Engineering is being done now,it works n theory, now we have to make it work in practice).

    This tech relates to renewables, and making them much wore widely available. We are also about to introduce technology that is going to make a wholesale change in the way certain industries function (Data, renewables, etc.). And that is just us, our competition is doing the same thing.

    We have (literally) done the math. Hydrogen just does not work yet, nor will it work anytime soon.

    As for stationary vs mobile, it is still too soon to tell. Battery tech is on the precipice of a new age. I have done this my whole career (30+) years. I have never seen folks in my industry so fired up about something like they are fired up about batteries, and the electrical revolution happening.

    The factories have been built. The manufacturing is being built, and will be online soon. Which will take over? Cars/mobile or stationary? As an insider and SME, it is too close to call. It could be that both do very well, and one does not submerge the other. As for right now, and what I see? I would bet on stationary hogging all of the production capacity for years to come (but I wouldn’t bet very much, there is just too much happening).

    The revolution in electricity is happening before your very eyes, and you cannot see it, (you kinda got tat be on the inside of things to see it), AND the best is yet to come. So exciting!!!
     
  10. DAGAR

    DAGAR Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2014
    Messages:
    1,344
    Likes:
    1,896
    Hydrogen and fuel cell may not currently pass the math test in autos, but it will likely be crucial for the upcoming personal transport drones where the battery weight is a huge factor.
     
    xjgary likes this.
  11. somber

    somber 370,000 miles
    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    1,044
    Likes:
    1,361
    Thanks for sharing that. Exciting stuff!
     
  12. xjgary

    xjgary Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    Messages:
    293
    Likes:
    164
    Or the fuel cell might be used as a very efficient range extender. A range of 200 miles does not cut it on a trip unless the battery could be recharged while using the gas station rest room and fully charged when you return.
     
    Cody's Car Conundrum likes this.
  13. CivoLee

    CivoLee Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    192
    Likes:
    217
    Has anything been set in stone here? People have been talking about this in other threads as if it were a done deal...
     
  14. suzq044

    suzq044 Resident Photoshop Nerd

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2005
    Messages:
    7,008
    Likes:
    4,746
    Most of us like to theorize and/or think ahead if this did happen. When and if it becomes a reality, Dave'll probably have a story to post. :)
     
    Zagnut27 and xjgary like this.
  15. KrisW

    KrisW Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Messages:
    1,091
    Likes:
    1,844
    [ Insert cheap-shot lithium-ion cobalt battery joke here ]

    From a European perspective, stationary power storage is where the big demand lies for new batteries. Northern Europe has invested heavily in wind energy, but wind has the downside of producing its largest outputs at low-demand times. Any way of storing that energy, even over a 24 hour period, would bring wind energy into the same category as hydro: clean power whenever you need it.

    ... plus, we've already got electric vehicles bringing people in and out of our congested cities: we just call them "trams" or "trains". Which is another market, somewhere between "stationary" and "in-car". (Electric trams and trains don't draw their motive current directly from the overhead wires; instead, the overhead power charges in-carriage batteries which in turn drive the motors).
     
    Deckard_Cain and xjgary like this.
  16. jerseyjoe

    jerseyjoe Plymouth Makes It

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2002
    Messages:
    7,465
    Likes:
    1,682
    More dilution will make other brands even more atractive to me.
     
  17. voiceofstl

    voiceofstl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Messages:
    882
    Likes:
    288
    The Optima has a large interior for the mid size. If Chrysler got that platform and gave it mopar styling and the 3.6...sign me up
     
    vipergg likes this.
  18. cygnus

    Ad-Free Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2014
    Messages:
    300
    Likes:
    255
    Toyota has quite a few smart people. Care to share some of your math?

    Second - the US power grid is not prepared for the night time utilization rates for even 30% of the car driving population to have electric vehicles. I assume your response to that will be the consumer will have batteries that will charge during off-peak grid times and the whole thing will be automated based on load/patterns. I don't think people are ready to drop $10-20k for battery packs. It's going to take 10-15 years for industry to consume this (assuming the take up rate increasingly YoY in hockey stick like growth) in order to bring prices down to levels that are palatable to consumers.

    There's quite a few assumptions during this whole changeover that must be true for all of this to work. It will be interesting to see how all this shakes out.
     
    #58 cygnus, Dec 9, 2017 at 8:42 AM
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017 at 8:54 AM
    xjgary and wtxiceman like this.
  19. Chase300

    Chase300 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    961
    Likes:
    726
    I believe Hyundai's solution to chassis tuning was to hire away BMW's M division head engineer...thus the new Elantra Sport.
     
  20. Chase300

    Chase300 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    961
    Likes:
    726
    I thought Tesla was working on this where similar to a cell phone charging pad, you simply drive and park over a charge pad that recharges the battery quickly without having to plug into anything.
    If you can provide charging this way, then you can easily have recharge stations just like gas stations now.
    The key will be how fast you can recharge the battery pack as it will need to be close to what refilling a 25 gal. gas tank takes now.
     
    xjgary likes this.

Share This Page

Loading...