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Fiat News

Discussion in 'Alfa and Maserati' started by Mopar392, May 15, 2019.

  1. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    You better break this news to Toyota. But please go easy. Decades of sales dominance might not adequately cushion the blow.

    .
     
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  2. patfromigh

    patfromigh Well-Known Member

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    I offer this quote.
    Toyota may be caught on the horns of the Innovator's Dilemma. That is, it's so devoted to its pioneering hybrid technology it can't see how the landscape is changing and where the world is going.

    Simply put, the Innovator’s Dilemma as formulated by Clayton Christensen suggests that very successful and well-regarded companies can do everything "right" but lose their market leadership—or even fail—nonetheless, when new, unexpected competitors emerge and start to take over the market.

    The textbook example is the computer disk-drive industry. In the 1970's and 1980's, industry leaders rose and fell as the disk drive they specialized in (14", then 8", then 5.25", and finally 3.5") ascended to prominence and then collapsed into oblivion.
    Source: Toyota vs. electric cars: Smart strategy, or Innovator’s Dilemma? (at https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1126267_toyota-vs-electric-cars-smart-strategy-or-innovator-s-dilemma )

    I'm not saying that Toyota's hybrid technology is useless. I am saying it's showing its age with it being high voltage and mostly using older battery chemistry (NiMh). Toyota has a huge lead in the hybrid drivetrain race, but they no longer are in control or leading the drivetrain technology race.

    This is the Fiat News thread. The Fiat mild hybrids offer a 12V BSG mild hybrid system that is simple and elegant. They don't cost 50K a pop like the Hyundai Kona BEV, nor are they complex like which ever Toyota hybrid competes in the EU market. The Fiats are able to enter Low Emissions Zones, but won't qualify for zero emissions zones. That is why Fiat is working on the next generation 500 BEV. When it does become available, the clock on it's obsolescence will begin to wind down, just like everybody else's.

    Any more talk about Toyota's hybrid technology or Korean battery electric technology belongs in other threads.
     
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  3. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    I disagree.

    Evaluations are most often This is less than that ... That is greater than this ... These are equivalents ... Then will be better than now ... Things have spun down ... Things are grander now than they were before.

    Comparatives and weighting always occur.

    The thread isn't actually the equivalent of a brochure.

    .
     
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  4. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    Toyota does not offer any form of hybrid in the city-car market segment in Europe - its Aygo model (a joint-venture with PSA, built in Kolín, Czech Republic) is sold as gasoline only. Its smallest model with Hybrid power is the Yaris hatchback (a B-segment car that was sold as "Echo" in the US for a while, a long time ago).

    While Toyota's Hybrid models are the top-priced versions of each nameplate (the cheapest one, that Yaris Hybrid, carries a €2,000 premium over the equivalent ICE model - a lot to add onto an €18,600 base price*), the 500 and Panda Mild Hybrid will be the entry models.

    Toyota has a very large investment in its hybrid drivetrain. The problem for Toyota is they're being caught by something that they themselves used to take great advantage of: it's easier to improve something that already exists than invent something. In the years since the Prius was launched, other manufacturers and component suppliers have found ways of achieving nearly all of the savings of Toyota's system at a considerable reduction in cost.

    Putting the new 1.0 engine and mild-hybrid onto 500 and Panda achieved the same percentage improvements in emissions and economy as Toyota gets by adding its full hybrid system to the Yaris... and the 500's system has a negligable effect on kerbweight, as it allows the continued use of a lighter manual transmission. Toyota's system also underperfoms in extra-urban driving compared to a regualar gasoline engine: when you're cruising, that transmission is just additional weight and mechanical drag. A family member replaced a diesel-engined Corolla with a Hybrid C-HR, and is very unhappy with the fuel economy of the new car.

    __
    * (Pricing is from German-market)
     
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  5. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    No, the Firefly 1.0 engine is offered only coupled, at least for now, with a revised C514 6 speed manual transaxle.
     
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  6. patfromigh

    patfromigh Well-Known Member

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    A continued discussion of Toyota's hybrid dominance with its related "Innovator's Dilemma" belongs in a more appropriate thread than Fiat News. By all means feel free to compare a BEV Kona costing nearly $50,000 USD to Fiat's mild hybrid city car in this thread.

    I will talk about Toyota's hybrid system in a more appropriate thread.
     
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  7. Mopar392

    Mopar392 Well-Known Member

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    Planned new Fiat’s vehicles for the next couple of years,

    Panda Restyling and Hybrid 2020

    -Tipo Restyling and Hybrid 2020

    -Tipo 5p Cross 2020

    -New 500X 2022

    -New 500? heir to the 500L 202?

    -New Panda (segment B) 2022

    -New Crossover (segment B) 2022

    -New Crossover (segment C) 202?

    -New Crossover (segment D) 202?

    -Electric Ducati 2020

    -New 595 2021

    -Giulia restyling and hybrid 2021

    -Stelvio restyling and hybrid 2021

    -Tonal also hybrid 2021

    -Alfa B-UV also electric 2022


    Novità Fiat, Abarth, Fiat Professional e Alfa Romeo (at https://www.passioneautoitaliane.com/2020/04/novita-fiat-abarth-fiat-professional-e.html?m=1 )
     
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  8. Morty

    Morty Well-Known Member

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    Nice, but l think you mean Ducato:) Ducati is owned by VAG.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Toyota's system excels with larger, heavier vehicles like the Highlander; doesn't do much for the Yaris! (Is that the old Yaris, by the way, or the new one that's on TNGA?)
     
  10. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    Toyota's system sucks and will become obsolete with the advent of P2 mild hybrids.

    Not to mention that most of the Europeans could stand a car with a "scooter" transmission.
     
  11. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Uh-huh.

    Pacifica PHEV sucks too, I guess.

    I got a real 30 mpg city from a freakin’ Highlander. Try that with a mild hybrid.

    I don't own a Toyota but I'll give credit where's due. They have a rock-solid, utterly reliable system. Maybe they could get better performance if they stressed it more, but in bigger, heavier vehicles, it does things mild hybrids can't.
     
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  12. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    That's PHEV. I'm talking about HEV. High voltage HEV doesn't make sense any more or will not starting late next year.

    PHEVs are something else but even than most of customers would not like "scooter" effect. Guess what. FCA will not offer it on any upcoming PHEV product.

    I'm unaware of a P2 48 Volts MHEV which you can buy. 48 Volts HEVs are also coming.
     
  13. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Abarth uploaded this ad today
     
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  14. tabutler

    tabutler Active Member

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  15. AvengerGuy

    AvengerGuy Well-Known Member

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    Despite the fact that I no comprende the language, I watched the new Fiat Strada video. Seems like a fairly impressive and right-sized little truck for those of us who have no need for a full-sized pickup truck. And let me say that I was a fan of the original Dodge Dakota back in the day. While I never had much of a need for a small or mid-sized truck back then, I might have use for one now.
     
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  16. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

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    RE: Future FCA product:

    As soon as the Marriage is consecrated, the combined entity might consider this as one of the first product priorities.

    With a little tweaking to the sheet metal and perhaps a slightly stretched wheelbase to include 4 and 5 door versions, I could very easily see this as the smaller entry-level type vehicle FCA desperately needs.....and...try to fill one of the few market segments so far untouched by Tesla:

    Introducing......The 2022 / 2023 Chrysler Valiant:


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA4htBoH6IY&feature=emb_rel_end
     
    #78 77 Monaco Brougham, Apr 30, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
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  17. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    There's already a 5-door version of the electric FIAT 500: it was seen in early spy shots.

    Both cars are only 2 inches wider than the gas 500.

    I personally think 500e could find a small, sustainable niche in the US market (the old 500e is a well-loved car), but it is primarily designed for the European urban and suburban environment. It would have more success in Japan, though (but would need conversion to ChaDeMo charging to sell there).
     
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  18. Tony K

    Tony K Active Member

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    I'm going to make a suggestion, don't name it Valiant, but leverage that name's similarity to an electricity (atomic level) term: Valence

    Or, Valence could be a hydrogen car.
    Electrons.jpg
     
    #80 Tony K, May 2, 2020
    Last edited: May 2, 2020

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