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Giulia Coupe

Discussion in 'Fiat News & Rumors' started by AlfaCuda, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. Lampredi

    Lampredi Active Member

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    Well, you described the 965 in your own post as a "Giulietta replacement" - that suggests a vehicle similar to the current Giulietta in concept, or it won't really be a Giulietta replacement, would it?
    The Giulietta is the successor to the 147, which was the successor to the 145/146, which were the successors to the 33, which was the successor to the Alfasud.
    What would be the difference between a successor to the Sud and a successor to the Giulietta, apart from the marketing aspects of it all?
    With FCA, the most sound assumption is that everything is vaporware until it is available in the showroom...
     
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  2. AlfaCuda

    AlfaCuda Active Member

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    I expect Giulietta replacement to be a CUV given the market trends. Would be nice to have a coupe version of that too.

    As mentioned before Coupes a good for Alfa's image. And should balance out the increasing number of SUVs in the range.
     
  3. KrisW

    KrisW Active Member

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    Body style would be the difference. Sud was a hatchback, but its silhouette isn't a hatchback. 33 wasn't a hatchback.

    I did forget about the 145, though.

    The point is that Giulietta could be replaced for buyers by two separate models: a subcompact "car" with a a classic three-box or coupé silhouette, and a subcompact CUV with the typical short-end hatchback style. The CUV doesn't have to kill the "small Alfa car".

    Look at what Mercedes did with their "subcompact SUV", the GLA. It's very little different from the current Giulietta in dimensions:

    Giulietta: 1465 H x 4351 L x 1798 W
    Mercedes GLA 1494 H (+29 mm) x 4417 L (+66 mm) x 1804 W (+6 mm).
     
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  4. Lampredi

    Lampredi Active Member

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    Well, the 33 (and the 146, I guess) was more of a notchback than a hatchback, I suppose, but nevertheless that's a minor difference compared with the significant difference between a hatchback/notchback and an SUV/CUV.
    Sure, that could be an option, which would be a lot better than axing the car and only building the CUV/SUV. However, FCA has demonstrated a willingness to axe a car in favour of an SUV/CUV with its decision not to build the Giulia wagon because apparently the Stelvio was sufficient, so an unfortunate precedent has already been set, and FCA as a general trend does not seem to like developing new vehicles...
    But at least Mercedes Benz builds the A and the CLA in addition to the GLA.
     
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  5. Lampredi

    Lampredi Active Member

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    A CUV wouldn't really be a replacement in the traditional sense, it would have represented a decision for Alfa Romeo to abandon one segment in favour of another (or alternatively a broadening of Alfa Romeo's range in case an actual Giulietta replacement saw the light of day as well).
     
  6. AlfaCuda

    AlfaCuda Active Member

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    Abandon a shrinking low or no profit segment in favour of a booming high margin segment. It's a no-brainer as to what's likely to get priority. Unless they detect a big reversal in this trend. Which I doubt.
    They could possibly have a wider range if budgets allow. CUV to be marketed globally, Traditional Hatch especially for EU and a small sedan especially for the US and Asia. However I doubt that they would take the risk. Rather I think they'd go for the safest segment at least initially.
     
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  7. pumadog

    pumadog Active Member

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    Isn't C still Europe's biggest segment? Most of that is hatchbacks. A C-segment sedan/coupé would be almost exclusively for US/Asia, but Europe is to remain Alfa's biggest market, especially in C-segment. And a C-sedan would cannibalise Giulia sales more than anything else.
     
  8. AlfaCuda

    AlfaCuda Active Member

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    C is the biggest but is it profitable?
     
  9. KrisW

    KrisW Active Member

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    I don't think it is anymore. FIAT does well with Tipo because it's made in Turkey - even at its competitive pricing, it's profitable. I cannot see how German-built VW Golfs make any significant money for Volkswagen.
     
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  10. Morty

    Morty Active Member

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    They do not...1-2%?
     
  11. Erik Latranyi

    Level III Supporter

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    Nobody knows actual profit margins for vehicles unless there is an official corporate announcement

    Everything else is a whisper campaign for the weak-minded.
     
  12. KrisW

    KrisW Active Member

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    Oh for goodness sake.

    Here is one of many articles covering VW's own financial reports: Volkswagen leaves door open on M&A as VW brand struggles (at http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-volkswagen-results/volkswagen-leaves-door-open-on-ma-as-vw-brand-struggles-idUKKBN16L0UP?il=0 )

    From that article, covering the 2016 results, VW Brand margins were:
    2015, 2%
    2016, 1.8%.

    "Breaking down the figures for the first time, the company said on Tuesday underlying operating profit at its VW brand fell 10 percent to 1.9 billion euros ($2 billion), with the profit margin slipping to 1.8 percent [in 2016] from 2 percent in 2015."

    This does not include costs related to diesel reparations - that's borne by the Volkswagen Group as a whole.

    However, the first half of 2017 has shown a significant increase in VW brand margins, to 4.6% with lower volumes than previously. They're following the same strategy as FCA - cutting back on unprofitable models, reducing production to raise transaction prices, and introducing more CUVs.
     
  13. Morty

    Morty Active Member

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    So l am weak-minded. Your high minded "perception" of other people´s posts never ceases to amaze me. Nor do your lack of manners.
    With your superior knowledge, please enlighten me as to the last official VW profit margin on their cars.
     
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  14. Morty

    Morty Active Member

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    @Latarnyi

    Another whisper campaign??
     
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  15. Deckard_Cain

    Deckard_Cain Active Member

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    The VW brand as terrible margins. They've been slow to capitalize on the SUV craze.
    The margins of the VW group are guaranteed by Porsche (I think they're the highest in the industry together with Subaru), Skoda and Audi by this order.

    Seat also has terrible margins, and its survival has been under discussion through most of its life. However, the Seat Leon and now their SUV made them reasonably profitable.

    I forecast that next year VW will strongly increase in profit thanks to the Tiguan and T-Roc (which is a overpriced Polo disguised as a SUV produced in Portugal, so with low production costs).
    However, the VW group is still taking hits from Dieselgate. But since they have more than 20 billion euros in net liquidity they're still very confortable.

    FCA needs more successful models like the Grand Cherokee, Renegade/500X duo, Levante and the all-mighty Ram pick-ups. Lets hope the Compass, new Wrangler, Giulia and Stelvio are homeruns. The Tipo is good but it won't bring in 10% profit margins (7% would be amazing).
     
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  16. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Active Member

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    On the item you cited in the link above......my take is that while VAG is not "officially" closing the door on M & A......that they're really much too busy licking their own self-inflicted wounds, rather than seeking out whom they may devour!
     
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  17. Erik Latranyi

    Level III Supporter

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    Nice try mixing numbers. But you cannot dance your way out of this. Overall profit margin is published. I agree.

    However, the original post was about profit margins on the Golf and my response was to that statement.

    Unless you can show me an official VAG statement on specifically Golf profit margins, I am correct and you are not.

    Have a nice day!
     
  18. Erik Latranyi

    Level III Supporter

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    Yes, it is interesting that somehow, with VAG's low profit margins, they have plenty of liquidity available to them, unlike the companies that chase margins alone.
     
  19. KrisW

    KrisW Active Member

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    I don't need to, because I can reason from facts.

    Let me put it this way: Realistically, which models in VW's range do you think are making more than 2% margin?

    You claim Golf is one of those higher-margin cars, but to make that true you have everything else make less than 2% on average, in order to balance out the overall figure at 2%. So, where have you moved the failure to make money to? Passat? That's an even worse situation. Nothing niche has enough units to make up the difference, and VW would be unique if its niche models didn't sell at higher, not lower, margin than its mainstream ones.

    .. and Volkswagen Group's (not Volkswagen Brand's) liquidity is from the Audi brand and years of making a bomb in China. Nobody was talking about the overall VW Group.
     
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  20. Erik Latranyi

    Level III Supporter

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    Sorry, but now you are trying to put words in my mouth.

    I DARE YOU to show me where I claimed the Golf is higher-margin. If you can't, then you better retract your post.

    I commented that nobody here knows the margins earned for individual models.
     

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