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Giulia Test Drives

Discussion in 'Fiat News & Rumors' started by AlfaCuda, May 10, 2016.

  1. Chase300

    Chase300 Active Member

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    Ever hear of the bathtub curve?
    Basically with a complex item such as an automobile, the likelihood of a failure is greatest early in its lifecycle.
     
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  2. Erik Latranyi

    Level III Supporter

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    Yeah, because that is how Toyota built an automotive empire.....
     
  3. Chase300

    Chase300 Active Member

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    Well the failures early should be small and most of the product should make it to the end of life cycle before failures start.
    Toyota still has them fail early...just a small sample size compared to the volume produced.
    That's what Alfa and FCA need to shoot for.
     
  4. Erik Latranyi

    Level III Supporter

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    Well, the early Giulia failures do not seem to be small in number. When multiple automotive review sites had their press cars fail, that is bad enough, but when 32% of Alfa loyalists on a website reported a total shutdown, that is serious.

    PS: Those shutdowns were just one problem. There are many other issues plaguing the Giulia that owners are experiencing.

    You can go to: http://www.giuliaforums.com/forum/778-alfa-romeo-giulia-issues-problems/

    Read them for yourself.

    The good part is most of the dealer experiences have been very good. Alfa is trying to make sure they track all problems. Unfortunately, inherent defects in design and parts cannot be prevented from failing.
     
  5. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Active Member

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    This is why I'm finding it hard to feel anything that even approaches optimism.

    The Giulia launch needed to be flawless...not only to help give legitimacy to the investment into reviving the brand, but also to shut up the critics and competition.

    It's becoming increasingly clear that Giulia...and by extension Alfa-Romeo have fallen short.

    And....this coming after the Maserati brand relaunch also being less than stellar.

    And...as for that crow? I would be happy to eat some if that day ever happens......so tell the kitchen that I would like it roasted along with some steamed broccoli and cauliflower....and a side dish of wild rice pilaf.:p:D
     
  6. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    Well Erik Latranyi Yo can also Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Ford, ... forums and You'll surprised by problems.
    Maybe You don't follow too much other brands, but were well known, for example, the engines problems of Mercedes C63 AMG.
    Or maybe You can make a tour at Toyota forums to see how some people are pleased to see their 2AZ-FE engines "eating" oil hangrily.
    Or maybe how happy where some of the owners of BMW with diesel N47 engine when the timing chain decided that wanted to fly elsewhere.
    Or maybe a run at Ford Focus RS forums ...

    Just to say :)
     
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  7. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    Maserati in 2016 broke its all-time sales record.
     
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  8. Erik Latranyi

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    Yes, but Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Ford and others are established brands in the US. Alfa is not.

    Bring a smartphone to the market and take on Apple & Google, but have quality issues.....sorry, first-year problems and let us see how much penetration of that market you win.

    In the US, the Alfa launch is not changing the reputation that drove Alfa away 20+ years ago. That is the real problem and all the excuses.....all the finger-pointing at others will not change that frightening reality.
     
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  9. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    That is your opinion, time will tell what will happen.

    And if it was for me I would launch any FCA vehicle first outside U.S.A., for minimum 18 months, than in U.S.A..
    For example new Jeep Wrangler? First in Canada, Mexico and elsewhere, than in U.S.A..
     
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  10. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    That's Toyota's old game plan.
     
  11. Andy69

    Andy69 Active Member

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  12. Andy69

    Andy69 Active Member

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  13. Prabhjot

    Prabhjot Active Member

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    We shall see. AFAI can tell: the new Alfa launches are going well-enough, with the European demand being really surprisingly on the upside, and the very important Chinese one still underway currently, so. USA is 'too early to tell' BUT seems at-par I'd say.

    What Marchionne and the firm are after, and this is VERY much central to the late, late but great push-for Alfa with all-new platform, powetrains etc, is (imo) a sizeable 'valuation' or 'brand equity valuation' for when the negotiations for that merger/acquisition/spinoffs/whatever get really detailed and serious, which is to say: by end 2018/2019. Or so I am presuming/betting. Am not the only one doing so, either!

    As everyone knows ONLY Jeep+usa pickup trucks+the more luxury and sports marques and nameplates tend to have even half-decent net margins IN-and-THROUGH downturns: in the usa and europe, with China and especially India a bit different admittedly in this respect.

    Currently, we are quite 'late cycle' in the usa, in an upcycle (sustainable?) in Europe, and in a booming-wealth-inequality-and-loose-credit-culture cycle globally manifested in booming sales globally for 'luxury', 'historic/heritage/authentic' and sportscar brands.

    Ergo: first Jeep goes global. Then: Maserati. Then: Ferrari is spunoff, and does blindingly well since then. Now: Alfa Romeo, which is a global, NOT usa-centric, launch. Soon: Jeep goes even higher up the global price/segment ladder-of-value-perception. Then: Dodge joins Alfa, albeit usa/canada-only.

    Meanwhile: FIAT latam returns, hopefully, to its traditional high-margins (lost due to the Brazilian+Argentine political-economy recessions) on the back of 5-6 years late all-new models+Jeep. But FIAT europe and Chrysler usa+canada are stuck in that low if any margins (in and through downcycles, remember!) mode, foreseeably: that much is true. While Lancia is clearly irrelevant any which way.

    And all the while: many new MULTI-brand dealerships, most branded and governed under MOPAR, for all brands including Jeep, Alfa and Maserati too, on a GLOBAL basis. These new dealerships+service operations are decidedly better, more viable, healthier and better than what they were preceded-by in the pre-fca years, whether in say China, or say Europe or say (nowadays) India, Australia or say Brazil, etc.

    Admittedly: still a work in (imo stupendous so far) progress! Including, especially, all things considered (Remember 2008/9!).....in the USofA.

    @Erik Latranyi
     
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  14. somber

    somber 370,000 miles
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    That's a very good thing. Sounds like they're making the effort to provide the luxury buyer with a good experience. As for the first model year troubles, I expect them for most first model years. That's why I usually avoid buying the first model year of a new car. I broke my tendency when I bought a 2013 Dart, but fortunately that worked out well for me. But for a $70K car, the buyers have a right to expect flawless. There's no way I'd ever pay $70K for a first model year car.
     
  15. Chase300

    Chase300 Active Member

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    OK, spent some time reading the issues...most if not all seem to be software related and with TSB solutions. Nothing showing major design issues, though I'm not crazy about the brake system but understand why they went that route.

    Also noted there were quite a few very happy owners and even the ones who had problems were still happy with the cars.

    http://www.giuliaforums.com/forum/5...554-there-any-satisfied-ar-giulia-owners.html
     
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  16. Prabhjot

    Prabhjot Active Member

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    Exactly. This is just a willful attempt to create a tendentiously, 'adversely selected' meme or small 'information cascade' playing on confirmation and inertial biases with which many such commenters on Alfa-is-of-poor-quality-reliability/etc on the internet hope to create a self-fulfilling 'truth' based on 'herding biases' and 'network effects.'

    That is simply how things are these days via the internet/etc.

    Nothing Alfa Romeo/fca are not perfectly aware of, as are all brands from any industry: yawn. PR and Marketing etc 101, really. Also cultural anthropology of Internet 101! ;-)

    Nothing that the purported 'absolute perfection' of Alfa cars, dealers, technology, plant, platform, powetrain, electronics and advertizing+marketing would have come anywhere close to preventing, since such national-origin stereotypes do persist in the usa (and other) car 'cultures' and WILL get reiterated by some/many. Perhaps, who knows, in some countries (such as say the UK): successfully. Thereby annuling the efforts at the Alfa renaissance there, etc. Perhpas in the usa too? Too early to tell for sure, but i very much doubt it (more diversity, looser/freer credit culture for the richer able to afford Alfa-s/bmw-s etc, etc.)

    We saw variations of this theme with the Maserati Ghibli and Quattroporte launches.

    I have just witnessed similar, pure rubbish stereotypes being deployed among millions of consumers and apparently 'well-informed' enthusiasts against (a) Ford (b) Chevrolet and lately (c) the Jeep Wrangler+Grand Cherokee in India, with a priori, axiomatic negative associations of American-brands' and firms'.....quality, reliability, durability, including especially the supposedly awful dealerships and service standards and spare-parts costs. Borderline: outright FALSE. FAKE NEWS etc. Call it what you will.

    That is why these things are called 'culture' as in: 'automotive culture', 'consumer culture'. Beyond reason, beyond reasoning, beyond truth versus false, beyond fact-uality etc.
     
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  17. KrisW

    KrisW Active Member

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    Faults do not worry me about Alfa's relaunch. What would really worry me is faults that the dealer doesn't address promptly, courteously and professionally. Anything can break, and a modern car is tens of thousands of bits that can break. The difference between successful and failed manufacturers is how they plan for these inevitable faults.

    Audi was mentioned: they have an appalling reliability record (measured by the cost-of-ownership on out-of-warranty cars), but exceptional dealer experience. Of the Audi owners I know, every one has had something unexpected wrong with their car, from minor trim breaks up to complete ignition system failure. However, every one of them left their dealers with a working car, fixed for free, thinking that they were "just unlucky".

    As for Apple, they also run a no-complaint returns program. If you get a bad iPhone, you bring it to one of their Stores, and they open a drawer and hand you a brand-new one. Apple's objective product quality (failure rate) is no better or worse than anyone else's, but their customer service when those units do fail is far beyond the competition (largely because that competition is Samsung, it has to be said).
     
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  18. Andy69

    Andy69 Active Member

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    hope they get these 1st year? problems soon fixed, for real reliability we have to wait some more time, how is new engines, gearboxes etc., Its nothing new really that this new car has sw problems, we had just here Audi in comparison test which auto emergency braking was not working because it was driven in road that was not its navigator...these new cars are really complicated compared to older cars, so many new features.
     
  19. Chase300

    Chase300 Active Member

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    The upside so far is I have not seen any recalls on the Giulia....just TSB's.
     

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