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GM accuses Fiat Chrysler of corrupt bargaining with UAW

Discussion in 'Mopar News' started by Polish Don, Nov 20, 2019.

  1. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Active Member

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    Don't do that! You're going to look very silly without an @ss!:D

    But seriously, this whole lawsuit smells like a gigantic shake-down GM is trying to pull on FCA...
    I expect EXOR's legal team will be right in there fighting!
     
  2. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    Curious, can you define what that unfinished business is from 2008?
     
  3. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    Fiat wanted Opel? Frau Merkel didn't like it.
     
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  4. Prabhjot

    Prabhjot Active Member

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    Being in a position "structurally" of NOT needing bailouts at EVERY major downturn of the 'business cycle'.

    In GM's case that is unequivocally because GM has no long-term (I.e., either a business family or the state) dominant 'owner'. GM is a monument to how wall street plus 'professional management' does NOT amount to being equal to the deep long-term cyclicality of the auto industry.

    PS: the uaw has a voting seat at GM's board if am not wrong?
     
  5. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    There are two things to consider here. First is the rate of pay. It is possible FCA could have a higher rate of pay than GM. However, FCA has a much larger percentage of Tier 2 workers (now called something else) which makes FCA's average labor cost for a UAW worker less than GM's or Ford's. It is estimated that GM spends $8 more per hour FCA on UAW compensation. Source:
    The Issues in 2019 UAW-FCA, Ford, & GM Negotiations | CAR (at https://www.cargroup.org/the-issues-in-2019-uaw-fca-ford-gm-negotiations/ )
     
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  6. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    Gruppo FCA - Elkann: "Entro fine anno il memorandum d'intesa con PSA" (at https://www.quattroruote.it/news/industria-finanza/2019/11/21/gruppo_fca_elkann_entro_fine_anno_il_memorandum_d_intesa_con_psa.html )

    The memorandum of understanding for the merger between Fiat Chrysler and the PSA group is expected to arrive by the end of the year as per the roadmap repeatedly outlined in the last few weeks after the preliminary agreement reached at the end of October. "Looking at how the FCA and PSA teams are working, I would say that I am encouraged that by the end of the year we will have a binding agreement. From here to the end of the year we will have a Memorandum of Understanding," said the president of the Italian-American manufacturer. John Elkann, during a press conference organized before an Exor holding event.

    No hitch from GM . Therefore, as already leaked in the last few hours, General Motors' report of alleged bribes paid to Uaw unionists does not represent an obstacle for negotiations with the French, nor is it a source of concern. "The cause will be dealt with in the right places. It has no foundation and as such does not worry us," stressed Elkann. "Personally I am sorry that false accusations are made against a person who has done so much as Sergio Marchionne who is not here to defend himself," added the nephew of the lawyer Agnelli, referring to what was stated yesterday by the GM on the role held by the late CEO , accused of having been "a central figure in the conception, execution and promotion of a fraudulent activity".

    Manley's letter . "We will not be held back by this initiative," CEO Mike Manley added, in a letter sent to employees, stressing that the "complaint revises a series of salacious public charges on pending legal issues in Detroit and, by a first analysis, beyond unsustainable speculations, does not present any new documented accusation ". Manley, in reiterating FCA's intention to defend itself "energetically", thanks the employees "for the work you have done and continue to do to create an extraordinary company" and therefore invites them to keep "our performance level high because has clearly worried some of our competitors ".

    Exor will guarantee stability to FCA-PSA. Elkann also provided reassurance on the role of the Agnelli holding company in the new group. The Turin family, accused of wanting to leave the auto sector, should move from the current 29% of Fiat Chrysler's capital to 14% of the new partnership, where the other significant partners with 6% each will be the French government, the Chinese of Dongfeng and the Peugeot heirs. "We underlined Elkann - we strengthened our commitment in the car sector compared to ten years ago. The share weight that Exor will have in FCA-PSA will be that of a reference shareholder". Not only. An agreement with the French family is not excluded to armor the control of the new group along the lines of what was done for Ferrari with a pact of consultation with Piero Ferrari. "Relations with the Peugeot family are very good, both on their part and on our part there is the will to guarantee stability and it is a strength that the two founding families are. How the relationship will develop is to be studied, but for our part it is certain that we will give maximum encouragement and support so that companies can do their best, "Elkann emphasized." We have always participated as a family in the development of car and over the years we have strengthened our commitment to the car "as seen in the merger between Fiat and Chrysler and as will be seen again" with what will become FCA with PSA ".

    PSA chosen for its profitability . The transalpine group has been praised above all for the relaunch of its economic and financial performances: "they have done an extraordinary job. Now we have two companies that have achieved extraordinary results", in particular FCA in the USA and PSA in Europe. And it is the Old Continent that represents one of the factors behind the decision to open a negotiating table with the French captained by Carlos Tavares. "PSA is the group with the highest profitability in Europe" and therefore represents an even better solution than Renault. The merger project with the House of the Lozenge has jumped due to the obstacles of French politicsbut Elkann does not seem disappointed in the end: "with them the negotiation has not ended badly, it simply has not continued". Certainly the merger between FCA and PSA "is an operation that strengthens both."

    Criticisms of Vettel and Leclerc . Elkann also spoke about the outcome of the last Formula One Grand Prix in Braziland in particular on the clash between the two Scuderia Ferrari drivers, Sebastian Vettel and Charles Leclerc. "What happened on Sunday not only made me very angry, but made us understand that Ferrari is important in Ferrari", he claimed in his capacity as president of the House of Maranello. "Certain behaviors of pilots are not acceptable. Whoever they are and however good they are, they must never forget that the only aspect that matters is that Ferrari wins and on this aspect Binotto is very clear". Elkann spoke of a "positive season" for the Rossa especially if we look at the number of pole positions, never so high since 1970. "Unfortunately we were not able to convert the pole positions into victories", he admitted with regret.
     
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  7. Muther

    Muther Well-Known Member

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    I believe what GM is trying to do is making this “a poison pill”. Drag this out as long as possible, and try to make as much fur fly as possible regardless of the merit of the case, in order to make it more difficult for the FCA-PSA merger. In this modern age of misinformation, one needs only to spread rumors; facts simply aren’t needed.

    GM isn’t a bunch of dummies. They had to know that if they rejected FCA, that FCA would find another dance partner. GM has itself to blame by a fairly strong measure.
     
    #47 Muther, Nov 21, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
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  8. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Active Member

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    It probably has something to do with the imperfect Google translation of John Elkann's statement, but the one statement above has me scratching my head trying to figure out exactly what that means.

    Any help nailing down what this means is greatly appreciated.
     
  9. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    I know this sounds petty, but I think it has a lot to do with the fact that Chrysler or FCA will no longer be these guy's little step brother that they can and used to bully and screw with. And I'm including Ford here as well. Up next, a possible GM/Ford tieup. Will it happen?
     
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  10. Stéphane Dumas

    Stéphane Dumas Well-Known Member

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    Well Ford is in an alliance with VW for some projects currently, we have to see what happen next. Same Bat-time! Same Bat-channel! ;)
     
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  11. Beentherebefore

    Level III Supporter

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    As far as I'm concerned, GM has been public enemy #1 for Chrysler since after WWII. Everything from monopolistic practices, marketing falsehoods, etc, to trying to wheedle unfair advantages in motorsports. This is just one more event to add to the list.
     
  12. patfromigh

    patfromigh Well-Known Member

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    I had a front row seat to GM's Wankel motor program in the early 1970s. GM had made promises to AMC to share this technology and in return AMC agreed to sell back the V6 tooling (inherited from Kaiser Jeep) to GM. The Wankel program was abruptly cancelled by GM, and AMC was left in the lurch, because AMC's front drive car project was being designed around the GM supplied Wankel motor. The result was AMC designers had to perform a rush substitution of their inline six and leaf spring rear drive axle. The Pacer was introduced in 1975, but AMC was fatally wounded financially.

    BTW, history repeated itself when GM pulled the rug out from under PSA Group with the Opel Ampera-E (Chevy Bolt) technology which GM was supposed to allow PSA to use, after the Opel-Vauxhall purchase. GM lied about the costs, and then put so many restrictions on its use, that PSA group chose to abandon the technology. I don't think PSA is under the same financial troubles AMC was, but PSA is under intense time pressure to have workable EV technology in Europe.

    The merger of PSA group and FCA will allow Opel access to the Fiat EV platform used in the next generation 500. Much of the merger benefits are for the EU passenger car market. The media mostly has overlooked that the PSA-FCA merger will combine Fiat Professional, Citroen, Peugeot, Opel, Vauxhall, and Ram Trucks creating a global commercial vehicle powerhouse.
     
  13. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    I think long-run Fiat Professional will move to Ram in markets where FP isn't dominant. (Only affects badging.) But yes, PSA has some presence where FCA does not and vice versa. Like Chrysler-Fiat, this is a combination where there's not that much overlap. The only real issue for Fiat people is the Peugeot expertise in smaller engines; for Chrysler it's easier since there's no overlap at all, except with the 1.3T and maybe 2.0T. The old 2.0/2.4 are dead anyway, along with the Fiat 1.4/1.4TT.
     
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  14. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I agree. There will be some turf wars between the French and Italian sides. The American side brings in all the profits, so they need to protect that at all costs until they figure out what goes and what stays in Europe
     
  15. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    Do you realize that PSA has a profit at FCA's level?
     
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  16. hmk123

    Level III Supporter

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    General Motors declares corporate war on Fiat Chrysler (at https://www.autonews.com/executives/general-motors-declares-corporate-war-fiat-chrysler )

    Reading this it makes it sounds like this is about a lot more than what is in the headlines if someone pins the root of this going back to 2009. Follow the money? Someone still trying to get back to how the Chrysler bankruptcy was handled? Someone who lost money? Or is it even bigger than that and it is politically motivated?

    One wants to say: Can’t wait for the HBO movie on this. But the truth is real life, real jobs and the future of an American icon are at stake. One cannot wonder if there isn’t a lot more to this than what meets the eye... unless of course the GM side turns out to be true. Curious when they have to show their evidence.
     
    #56 hmk123, Nov 22, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  17. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    Yes and almost all of FCAs comes from NA. So if cuts come, where will Tavares look first? It won't be NA.
     
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  18. hmk123

    Level III Supporter

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    GM isn’t doing this because they want Opel back or is it? :)
     
  19. 1969 300

    1969 300 Well-Known Member

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    I do not think this frivolous lawsuit will have an affect on FCA. In reality, GM does not want it to go to trial unless they want their entire strategic plan and backroom meetings exposed to the public. I would not be surprised if FCA countersued as well. Any trial will take years- perhaps decades- to resolve at the cost of hundreds of millions of dollars on both sides. My prediction: FCA will pay GM a settlement in the neighborhood of $100 million.
     
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  20. 1969 300

    1969 300 Well-Known Member

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    I think that GM is pissed because FCA got at least one part of GM- Opel. It looks kind of silly that a number 4 automaker is suing a number 7 automaker. If GM really wants to go after someone, why not Toyota? They have been racketeering with the Japanese government for currency manipulation and other hidden tariffs for decades.
     
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