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Goodbye to our beloved 4 speed ULTRADRIVE

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by voiceofstl, Dec 9, 2019.

  1. voiceofstl

    voiceofstl Well-Known Member

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    how is the most recent 4 speed (since 2005) compared to Gm and Toyota?
     
  2. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    This means that Dodge Journey is leaving Toluca very soon. EMEA Jeep Compass is also leaving or is already left.

    Toluca will have a lot of unused capacity. What will came in? Something on Small Wide and future evolution or?
     
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  3. patfromigh

    patfromigh Well-Known Member

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    My wish is for a series of vehicles based on the Small Wide. The Latin American Strada and Palio Weekender, along with other vehicles off that platform, are a size smaller and too small to play well North of the Rio Grande. We don't get the Toro here and I like the Fiat Fastback Concept. A Weekender in a larger size would be tempting as well. Like I said, this is just wishful thinking.

    An even crazier thought is clearing Toluca out to make room for a combined FCA-PSA series of vehicles. Peugeot hasn't replaced their Hoggar pickup in Latin America. Meanwhile, Ford is eating Ram's lunch in the small van category, despite Ford having an inferior product compared to the Ram PMC. A big reason is we don't get all the versions of the Doblo here, because of the production contracts with TOFAS. I don't know how up to date the small van products that PSA Group markets in Latin America are. It might be possible for all the interested parties to start fresh in that market. There are rumors that Mexico City will establish low emissions zones in parts of the metropolitan region. It is just rumors, but simply looking at what is happening in the EU, the need for new product from Toluca is critical.
     
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  4. patfromigh

    patfromigh Well-Known Member

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    Getting back on topic, here is the latest product offering from Vitesco Technologies, the Powertrain business unit of Continental AG. They are a supplier for both FCA and PSA group.

    Vitesco Technologies Cuts Costs for Plug-In Hybrid Powertrain
    • Vitesco Technologies presents cost effective hybrid transmission with integrated electric motors
    • Expanded role for electric motors results in vastly simplified transmission architecture and reduced costs
    • Solution enables energy-saving high-voltage hybrid vehicles to be tailored to the mass market

    I find this interesting. I wonder if this will work with 48V. More in the link.
    Source: Vitesco Technologies Cuts Costs for Plug-In Hybrid Powertrain (at https://www.continental.com/en/press/press-releases/2019-12-09-phev-solutions-204180 )
     
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  5. 97 plymouth neon expresso

    97 plymouth neon expresso Well-Known Member

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    There is no inferior product than the RAM PMC, I dislike Ford, but would take a Transit Connect over the PMC anyday, or an '86 Caravan C/V with the 2.6 over either of them
     
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  6. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    I've noticed the large fleets (the ones that are concerned both with purchase price and operating cost over a large number of vehicles) are still very loyal to the Transit Connect. I notice the smaller businesses that may run one or two vans are where the Promaster City is popular. The only exception is I'm seeing one of the auto parts chains using the Promaster City in their fleets.
     
  7. LouJC

    LouJC Active Member

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    I'm seeing a fair # of Promasters as Amazon delivery trucks...
    the irony of Chrysler's auto trans history...they probably had the first really good auto trans (Torqueflite) but that was mucked up when they added lock up converters and the 4 spd OD unit, later improved....
    then...the front drive K cars got a decent 3 speed replaced by the terrible Ultradrive...
    however, the 5 speed auto that replaced the old 4 speed Torqueflite in the rear drive and 4x4 apps was actually pretty good...
    followed by the 9 speed ZF fiasco
    I don't know why they refuse to learn from their own history.
     
  8. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Amazon and UPS use the “big” Promaster from what I’ve seen. Not the smaller City.
     
  9. patfromigh

    patfromigh Well-Known Member

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    Ford, for the Transit Connect, allows fleets to order a different drivetrain other than what is offered to consumer retail customers. Fleet purchasers and managers find the fuel economy trade-off acceptable over the reliability and durability issues. That allows large fleets to go with the Transit Connect, while commercial buyers purchasing one or two vans will probably choose the Ram.

    We have both the Ram PMC and Ford Transit Connect in our commercial fleet here at work. Very few buyers choose the EcoBoost motors for a full time work truck. Ford's base V6 offers enough power in the F-150 or a full size Transit van to get the job done. The smaller EcoBoost in the Transit Connect is not a wise choice.
     
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  10. Bearhawke

    Bearhawke Things happen for a reason

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    Not only was the original TorqueFlite (1956-57) the arguably best auto tranny before 1964; apparently GM paid some royalties to Mopar to use the 'Simpson' gear design in their TH series starting that year.
     
  11. vipergg

    vipergg Well-Known Member

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    I stayed away from that as long as I could . Specifically bought a 96 Voyager with the 3.0 V6 because it was still paired with the reliable 3 speed auto . There was little MPG difference between that and the 4 speed . Finally in 2004 bought another van and had to chance it with the 4 speed . Never had a problem with it in over 100000 miles with it and it shifted smoothly . A lot smoother than the current 6 speed which is garbage shifting wise compared to the older 4 speed .
     
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  12. vipergg

    vipergg Well-Known Member

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    I cant speak to the longevity of the newer 8 speeds but have not seen where they are having any major issues . I know the 850RE in my 20 Durango is one of the smoothest shifting transmissions I have ever driven .
     
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  13. voiceofstl

    voiceofstl Well-Known Member

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    It seems in the mid 20teens mopars transmissions were hit and miss, some say the 9 speed is great and others hate it. I h ave heard complaints about the 6 speed but in my 2016 that I have had for 3 years now has been as smooth as silk. I find it better then the 4 speed I have in my 05 caravan. I like my 4 speed no problems with it but my 6 speed is better.
     
  14. page2171

    page2171 Well-Known Member

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    I only had one Mopar with the 4 speed auto, our 2002 Grand Caravan. Because my father-in-law went through a fair number of transmissions in his Mopar minivans, I lived in fear the whole nine years that we owned the 2002 that the tranny would fail. It ended up going 300,000 miles, and the only transmission problem was having to replace the solenoid pack once.
     
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  15. LouJC

    LouJC Active Member

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    Agreed I've seen the large Promaster painted up dark grey with an Amazon logo on it.
     
  16. Mr. Fusion

    Mr. Fusion Well-Known Member

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    Someone was talking about their Dart transmission in another thread, and it just hit me: Why was the 4-cylinder Journey never fitted with the Powertech transmission? You can't say that combination had never been done before, because the Jeep Compass/Patriot were fitted with that exact powertrain -- i.e., the (non-Tigershark) WGE 2.4 with the 6-speed Powertech auto. If the Jeeps could use the Powertech, then why was the Journey, with the same engine, stuck with the ancient 42TE for its entire life?
     
  17. patfromigh

    patfromigh Well-Known Member

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    The Powertech transmission has had a very short career in FCA vehicles. The new vendor of choice is now Aisin. The front drive only Compass uses the 6 speed Aisin, as do some Fiat models. That ancient 42TE saw a lot of large car and minivan duty. Maybe the Powertech isn't suitable for such duty. Another reason is the in-house transmission fits in the Journey, it didn't fit in the Dart or Jeeps.
     
  18. Mr. Fusion

    Mr. Fusion Well-Known Member

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    I didn't even realize that about the new Compass. :oops: When the specs were first released and indicated a 6-speed auto for the volume models, I assumed it was the Powertech. I'm not sure why. (Although I did know about the Aisin from the Fiat 500L.)

    Still seems weird to me about the Journey. (1) It was not a niche application, in fact it was one of Dodge's highest-volume models; (2) It was not an engine compatibility issue because that exact engine had already been paired with the Powertech in the smaller Patriot, and therefore (3) It was not a fitment issue either. I suppose it could have been an issue of that tranny not being ideal for the weight/mass of the Journey, but just as likely the issue was what it always was when it came to that car: FCA being too lazy or stingy to improve it.
     
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  19. voiceofstl

    voiceofstl Well-Known Member

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    why don't you like Ram PMC..on paper it is na much better van.
     
  20. 97 plymouth neon expresso

    97 plymouth neon expresso Well-Known Member

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    At my former employer, they have been using mostly Caravan/GC C/V's since 1986, with a sprinkling of Astro's, Freestars etc. The Caravans have had some issues, but mostly dependable, high mile achievers. When the GC C/V was no longer available, they leased a PMC. Underpowered gas and oil guzzler that spends more time at the dealer then making money on the road. Both engine and transmission have been replaced, no one wants to drive it, but rather be in a 7 year old 160,000 mile GC. The PMC should have never been released while they were/are still making GC's. The reviews for the PMC are terrible too
     

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