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HEMIS are gone after 2019?

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by dakrt99, Aug 19, 2015.

  1. hmk123

    Level III Supporter

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    And trying to get a CTS-V must be tough, too. Cars.com shows 93 for the whole country. Going from $92k to over $100k...
     
  2. dmcdonald

    dmcdonald Well-Known Member

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    I can think of a few that I think sound fantastic.
     
  3. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps lamenting this turn of events keeps us from seeing the benefit of having a Challenger or Charger with Two Hurricane Inline 4's !!

    { You see, you still get your 8 cylinders that way :D }
     
  4. Ryan

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Yeah, I think the Giulia Quadrifoglio sounds great.
     
  5. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    But I wasn't referencing the CTS-V.

    The point of the post was referencing the extremely potent ATS-V which has a twin turbo V6.

    Will I miss the V8, yes... Can a twin turbo V6 replace the V8 in terms of performance? Yes absolutely.

    Mike
     
  6. hmk123

    Level III Supporter

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    Totally agree with you. Friend of mine got a new M3 and he never complains about is power. It's fast.
     
  7. Rick Anderson

    Rick Anderson Well-Known Member

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    I "think" the Flat 6 is the next least compromise for packaging. i.e. they still have the same pulse intervals, but the strength efficiency goes down because of the stress of opposed cylinders. But it does shorten the package.

    Judging by the number of thrown rods I've heard about in Subaru Opposed 4's and Porsche Opposed 6's, the strength thing is true.

    And a flat opposed motor is NOT exactly an easy thing to package, and again, the "V" becomes king simply because of the packaging advantages.

    And the crossflow thing, so true, and the big advantage of the HEMI as I understand it, the Combustion Chamber Shape allows for the biggest valves possible and having the valves position and angles produce huge gains in crossflow the corresponding ports, as well as, tumbling and turbulence for the intake charge. This stuff about a Semi-Hemisphere shape re-directing the force/pressure of the burning gasses onto the piston, ummm, not so much.
     
  8. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    Flat engines are not necessarily the most efficient engines.

    Mike
     
  9. Rick Anderson

    Rick Anderson Well-Known Member

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    Winning races, fastest 1/4 mile time and 0-60mph times is what is going to win out. Sure people will miss the sound.

    V8's won't disappear, but again, I suspect my next vehicle will be a V6 instead of V8, but perform like a V8. I would have to doll out an even prettier penny for the V8 in the future.

    IMO, and I'm far the only one, in fact its much more common with the typical practical car purchaser. I may have my preferences and my dreams for an ideal car, but what it comes down to, I'm going to have to go with the more practical choices unless I can afford the luxury of something less practical.

    I love driving a stick shift, but if the next car I buy, the automatic has better performance and fuel efficiency, I'm getting the Automatic.

    I love having a V8, but if the next car I buy has a V6 that has better performance and fuel efficiency than other V8's in its class or previous versions with V8's, I'm getting the V6.
     
  10. Rick Anderson

    Rick Anderson Well-Known Member

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    I don't know enough about Flat Opposed engines to know what your talking about. I can imagine the separation of cylinders have disadvantages with intake/exhaust plumbing and lengthy valvetrain, as well the strength issue I spoke about. Like anything, I suspect one advantage can easily be outweighed by other advantages with better execution, etc.... i.e. put enough engineering into a V6 it will easily be better than a I6 that is poorly executed.

    I think the latest Porsche Flat 6 has valvetrain issues. To use the same head on both sides of the engine, they have to cross-over the drive rotation for the valve train from rear to front for the other side. The transfer tube driving the chains/belts between the heads like to twist itself in half taking out the whole engine.
     
  11. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    Cons to a flat "boxer" engines:

    Space: the engine is WIDE and requires a lot of space compared to an inline four or V6. This also means the vehicles they are installed in don't leave a lot of room for servicing. Simple tasks like spark plug changes are typically very difficult and time consuming due to packaging the wide engine.

    Weight: more space equals more weight compared to a more compact inline 4 or V6

    More complex: no shared crank journals (goes back to weight), two cylinder heads and all the components required instead of one (compared to inline four), more complex castings for water and oil jackets than and online or V engine.

    More expensive to produce and tend to eat more gas than a comparable inline of V engine (going back to size and weight)

    Etc, etc. don't get me wrong, a WRX STI sounds absolutely amazing and the engine is very very powerful and has many pros... But for me the cons outweigh the pro's. Its really more a niche thing exploited by Porsche and Subaru at this point.

    Mike
     
  12. WXman

    WXman Active Member

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    Actually, it's interesting that you brought that up. Look at the Ford 5.0 V8 vs. the 3.5 V6TT. On paper, the 3.5V6TT makes more torque, and less horsepower. So, in the real world both trucks are going to perform tasks similarly. You could tow your boat with either. But, (and I know this because I shopped for them myself) the V8 has FAR smoother throttle response, is less money to purchase, gets better fuel economy in the real world, and has a record of far fewer repairs.

    You mentioned you would avoid NA engines in the future. I personally LOOKED for the NA option. Why would I pay more money up front for an engine option that will use more fuel (again, more cost) and statistically will require more repairs due to it's added complexity (again, more cost) as time goes on? Ford keeps saying "45% of all F-series sales are V6s!!!" What that means is that 55% are V8s sold to wise consumers that actually think about what they're buying. Carbon buildup, turbo failures, supplemental vacuum pump failures, intercooler water contamination, the list goes on forever. I consider EcoBoost to be one of the greatest gimmicks Ford has ever pulled off. V8 all the way. I despise GM, but they've been smart enough to keep the V8 as their soul for their trucks.

    Back to cars.. put a Camaro I-4 turbo, V6, and V8 in a row and ask people which they'd buy if price was no factor. Almost every single one of them is going V8 hands down. The ONLY reason V6 cars are popular (and have been for decades) is because they are sold to people who can't afford the V8. If we're talking a family sedan, sure give me a six. But in any of the vehicles that currently offer a V8, the V8 is clearly there for a reason and should continue to be.
     
  13. GasAxe

    GasAxe Well-Known Member

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    You shouldn't compare V8's between cars and trucks. Totally different applications and program targets. The program requirements for a Mustang is far different than a F-150 loaded to capacity going up, then down a steep grade.

    Calling anyone who bought a Ecoboost unwise is pretty disingenuous. Maybe 45% of F-150 buyers know that they use their truck for light hauling and they can get better mileage without the V8. Maybe 55% of V8 buyers buy V8's for foolish appendage measuring pride only. I'd say the number of wise buyers is somewhere in between.;)

    You'll find that a V8 in a car will be mostly for the folks where money is no object, just like a V10 or V12 is today. The market will adjust to what people are willing to pay for.
     
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  14. Robert Johnson

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    Ummm, thank you. If one tows where the altitude is low then a NA truck will do just fine (even the standard V6 model from all 3 truck makers GASP!) Pull a 20 foot boat and trailer up to 6000 feet and a turbo will do a better job. Thus, just choosing a V8 just because it is a V8 does not seem a very thoughtful decision.
     
  15. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    In high altitudes the turbos have a major advantage (one reason why you want to ignore a road test done at the top of the Rockies if you live in Kansas).

    Most F-150s aren't used for towing. The turbo six is more than enough.

    The turbo engines have another advantage in a car —> lower weight (usually) so that you get better handling (usually). AEBE (all else being equal)
     
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  16. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    Yup...

    Mike
     
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  17. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Side note -> if you design a car to ONLY have a smaller engine, you can make the car smaller and lighter and then people might stop calling it an overweight pig. Just saying.
     
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  18. Robert Johnson

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    When a Charger has a 300hp V6 the "need" of a V8 really pales for me. About a year ago I drove a V6 challenger and a Hemi back to back and yes the V8 was really fun I thought the V6 was just fine. I dont street race and I dont take my car to the track and since there are really no other places one can use even 300HP I dont see much reason to pay extra for the 8 and for the extra fuel and insurance. I fully agree with whoever first said "it is a lot more fun to drive a slow car fast than drive a fast car slow". Despite what was implied a few posts above, smart people also don't choose V8s.
     
  19. phillip123

    phillip123 Member

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    Always in our hearts :D lol
     
  20. pt006

    pt006 Active Member

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    I believe one of the Bentley's has a W-8 engine. I find it strange that luxury cars had long hoods in yesteryear to fit straight 8's, V-12's, and V-16's into them. It was a status symbol for luxury. ------ And now a W-8?

    Straight 6's are very smooth running. Some of the old Chevy car guys idle their engines way down just to show how low they can go. Note that low compression helps.

    Flat 4's and flat 6's keep a cars center of gravity lower. Another downside [vw's and Corvairs] of this engine was the leaky pushrod tubes.

    FairBanks Morse made a one cylinder dual crankshaft large diesel engine many decades ago!
     

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