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Historical Mopar in Nascar - II

Discussion in 'Historical' started by Beentherebefore, Oct 19, 2013.

  1. Beentherebefore

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    Here is a shot of Issac's #71 @ Riverside's January '70 race (shared from HRM's Facebook page) showing why those sloped noses were not the best thing to have on a road course;


    [​IMG]

    If the brake cooling systems weren't damaged, the engine cooling systems often were.
     
  2. Beentherebefore

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    I couldn't find the picture I wanted of Bown's car running on a short track with the wing + standard RR nose but here is a picture that you posted earlier this year on the other Nascar thread. You can clearly see Bown's car (as well as Ray Elder's) with their wings attached for a short track race but with their standard nose pieces on. I believe that this was some big $$$ "open competition" race up in the Northwest that drew in some of the W. West drivers who normally would not have been racing against '57 Chevys and '58 Fords.

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. DC-93

    DC-93 Active Member

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    $$ talks, b.s. walks...

    I wonder how much of a torque moment that wing put on the back end of the car??? I know for a fact that are not light, even in aluminum!!!
    You'd have to get a lot of down force to make it work on a short track. I have the graphs and without the nose & front spoiler it will lift the front!
    Wing cars were designed as a package. They could be made to "zero lift" with tuning.
     
  4. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie Valued Member
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    That's right...............you need downforce to make it work and to get downforce you need speed and on these short tracks or dirt tracks there ain't nothing happening.
     
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  5. Beentherebefore

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    There must have been some benefit or you wouldn't see two of the West Coast's top stock car racers running that package (unless the promoter gave them a little extra to show up with the attention grabbing wings). If I knew which track that was, I might recall something specific as to how the wing might give some type of advantage. I went to a 500 lap "open competition" race @ Calif's Ascot Park a few years later and Ray Elder brought one of his "coke bottle" Chargers. He only qualified about 8th, behind a bunch of lightweight "Brand C" short track cars. By lap 100, he was running 3rd as the "Brand C" cars began to drop out. By lap 200, he was in the lead, and when he finished the 500 laps, he was 3 laps ahead of the 2nd place car which was also a W. West car, IIRC.
     
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  6. DC-93

    DC-93 Active Member

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    Gotta be there at the end to win!
     
  7. Beentherebefore

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  8. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie Valued Member
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    I know you guys didn't follow NASCAR back in the 80's and 90's after Dodge pulled out but Chevy and Pontiac continued to fool around with aero on production cars to make them eligible for NASCAR competition. See the attached pics of the 1986 Pontiac and 1987 Chevy aero coupes. The rear window treatments remind me of the Charger 500 in some ways.


    Dale Earnhardt #3.jpg 1987 Chevy Monte Carlo SS.jpg 1986 Pontiac Richard Petty.jpg 1986 Pontiac Grand Prix Aerocoupe side view.jpg .
     
  9. Beentherebefore

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    Some of the most hideous vehicles ever built.

    Childress and his driver, "Big E", whined like little girls about getting beat by the Elliots' T-Bird. So Nascar let them build these "aero-coupes" which were much more aerodynamic on the big speedways than the standard boxy GM mid-sized vehicles. The irony was that Nascar had made a ruling back in 1970 that specially aero-enhanced vehicles (like the winged Mopars and Ford Talladega Torinos) would not be eligible for competition unless they ran motors smaller than 306" . Did they apply that ruling when GM teams complained about needing special aero-enhancements to keep up with the Elliots? Of course not!
     
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  10. DC-93

    DC-93 Active Member

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    It's been documented with vintage photos that the 201 run that the K&K Dodge ran in Nov. 1970 at Talladega, was done with TWO 4 bbl. Holleys, which was illegal. (hood up photo shows the LARGE 2 4bbl. air cleaner on the car. You can see the TWO hold down studs)
    Supposedly, it was a return "favor" to Isaac and the K&K guys for running the first Talladega race and NOT boycotting the event like every other factory driver did for Chrysler and Ford.

    So, bottom line: Nascar does what it wants, when it wants! Don't like it, too bad! lol...
     
  11. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie Valued Member
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    And by 1987, using a 358" engine with a single 4-barrel, all the cars qualified for the Talladega 500 at over 200 mph. Technology is a wonderful thing!
     
  12. Doug D

    Doug D Virginia Gentleman

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    I always found it interesting that whenever NASCAR made changes to slow the cars down, the team engineers still found a way to make them go faster. Last year NASCAR reduced the hp and now this year with the low down force package the cars are logging faster lap times.
     
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  13. DC-93

    DC-93 Active Member

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    Lower down force = less drag. :cool:
     
  14. Doug D

    Doug D Virginia Gentleman

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    Also means less grip, but Good Year is providing softer tires where the grip level drops off pretty quick. So its more of managing tire wear. Except for Daytona nearly every race is like Darlington - tires wear out before they run out of fuel.
     
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  15. DC-93

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    Cars ran 200 with bias ply tires & MUCH less grip. (actually some lift)

    Of course, that's when a driver could drive. There are some good videos out there showing the back ends hanging out, lap after lap on the speedways!!
     
  16. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie Valued Member
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    Yup, and the cars were heavier and no power steering and were higher off the ground then todays cars which use splitters to stop air from going under the car.....................and not much of a rear spoiler compared to todays cars before the low drag package came out.
     
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  17. DC-93

    DC-93 Active Member

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    6.5" frame to track. 3" max. rear spoiler. Front at 45 degrees, 6.5" from the track and width was between the frame rails.
    3,800. pound cars! No side skirts either.
     
  18. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator
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    These cars were cool and they are very reminiscent of the aero car wars of the 68-70.

    Mike
     
  19. Beentherebefore

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  20. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie Valued Member
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    Picked these up at a car show today........ IMG_1889.JPG
     
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