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Hybrid: 530 mpg range

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by Dave Z, Jan 11, 2016.

  1. humdrum

    humdrum Well-Known Member

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    So, is there, or isn't there an AWD version? Nothing I've seen or read indicates that there is one, at this point.
     
  2. humdrum

    humdrum Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I like the design, I can see some similarity in shape to my 96 T&C. The T&C was one of the best road cars I have owned (drivability and comfort). Nothing beat it for long trips.
     
  3. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    No AWD announced. It might not come after all.
     
  4. ScottB

    ScottB Active Member

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    Bob, his individual circumstances just blur a fair comparison between the two vehicles. Want to make your point even more dramatic? Then why don't you use the scenario of my customer coming out of a Cadillac STS and a Suburban and buying two Prius plug-ins to replace them. I mean if we're just looking for a way to prove our points, why not dream up any ol' extreme like my Chevy Volt gets better mileage than an M1A1 Abrams. So what. Want to make a valid argument, stick to a fair car-to-car comparison, which is what I did. Do you really think using the 2012 pricing of the Yaris and Prius C is really going to yield different payback results than the 2016 pricing of the two? Nope, it won't. How is there any better benefit buying a NEW Prius C versus a NEW Yaris? Is the upside of replacing the old pickup with the Prius C any better than the upside of replacing it with a Yaris? Not based on ROI. The Yaris wins.

    Bottom line, most hybrids including the Prius C DO NOT have a reasonable payback via fuel savings. Unless you call 2-3 decades reasonable. The car won't last that long.
     
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  5. wilbur

    wilbur Well-Known Member

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    I think the AWD option is an announcement on it's own at a later date.

    They had a good release so far.

    Wil
     
  6. wilbur

    wilbur Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, I would pay an extra tax to have the hybrid model to stop being held by the throat by the fuel companies and foreign countries.

    The Pacifica Hybrid is the perfect setup for my shop to do deliveries on a daily basis and not have to worry that fuel may mysteriously increase over night by 20 cents a litre for no reason.

    Wil
     
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  7. HotCarNut

    HotCarNut Defender of Reality
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    Then hybrid is the wrong way to go as the vast majority of the Lithium deposits are controlled by Chinese or South American mining companies. In fact, Lithium is very rare (as are most of the metals used in high-density batteries) and oil is MUCH easier to get should one producer get pissed off at us. A truer "energy independent" strategy would utilize hydrogen and natural gas as we're one of the leading producers of natural gas, and hydrogen can be separated from sea water on plants along the coast. Unfortunately, it's energy intensive to separate hydrogen, so you would probably have to go with a combination of nuclear power and wind/solar/tidal in order to keep it relatively carbon neutral.
     
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  8. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    And now the costs have increased again...
     
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  9. ScottB

    ScottB Active Member

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    Actually, rather than paying an additional tax for the plug-in hybrid, it is likely to qualify for a tax credit to blunt the pain of the extra cost of the system.
     
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  10. HotCarNut

    HotCarNut Defender of Reality
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    Those credits are temporary though. At some point the van will have to stand on its own and make financial sense to consumers. Chances are this will be more of a political/beliefs statement for buyers (much like the Prius) rather than a truly justified economic decision.
     
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  11. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    Again, you fail to see my point, either deliberately or otherwise. You claim hybrids have an excessively long payback. His case was either to drive his existing truck or get a new vehicle. The Prius C met his needs and gives a payback less than 7 years compared to the truck. The Yaris does not meet his needs, as I explained, partly due to the dimensional differences. It's smaller in areas where he needs more room. It's not a candidate.
    But the Prius C not only cut his gasoline expenses in half, but maintenance and repair plummeted.
     
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  12. GasAxe

    GasAxe Well-Known Member

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    Remember the good ol' days when threads were derailed by Jeep arguments...
     
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  13. ScottB

    ScottB Active Member

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    Bob, I can't continue to argue with someone that doesn't want a fair car-to-car comparison. So, all I can say at this point is: Whatever!

    And, yes, all hybrids have excessively long payback periods unless you do what Lincoln does and sell the gas and hybrid versions for the same price. I don't think anyone but Lincoln does that (and shrinks profit/unit by the thousands in doing so).
     
  14. humdrum

    humdrum Well-Known Member

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    ... and yet they survive. Let's face it the ROI won't be maximized until sales and production increase. At this point in time the purchase of a hybrid is purely a personal choice. A choice I would consider making if I was in that position.

    Battery availability, as one example, will change when the Tesla gigaplant comes on line.
     
  15. somber

    somber 370,000 miles

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    Without knowing the price delta between the hybrid and non-hybrid versions of Pacifica, we can't tell yet what the fuel savings payback will be. For me, the clincher is that the hybrid loses the center row Stow 'n Go - that's a capability I don't want to give up.
     
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  16. xjgary

    xjgary Well-Known Member

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    $2 a
    $2 a gallon? The downtown station in my city charges $3.56.9 per gal for regular (this morning). The cheapest station in town is $2.999 (last night when I filled up. My point is that it may be cheap in your region, but that is not universal. I'm 6'2" and I can sit in the backseat of a Prius C, knees forward, with the front seat moved all the way back. I admit to never sitting in a Yaris, but it looks too small from the outside to do that. What's the resale on both after say 5 years or 10 years? You have to count that in the cost of ownership. Hybrids, new and used, are very popular where i live due to the high cost of fuel.
     
  17. PAMoparMan

    PAMoparMan MoPaR oR No CaR

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    Exactly correct. Even if I can save $1000/year in fuel, if the vehicle costs $10000 more than a non-hybrid, the 10 year payback may be a tough sell. My math is based on $2.50/gal, so if fuel prices rise, the economics get better. Our average fuel costs are $2000/year, so the absolute best (but not really attainable) is a 5 year payback. Personally I'm OK without the center row stowing seats. We very rarely fold ours in.
     
    #37 PAMoparMan, Jan 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2016
  18. PAMoparMan

    PAMoparMan MoPaR oR No CaR

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    My opinion is that a hybrid minivan will ultimately make more economic sense than a tiny econobox car. It's a lot harder to squeeze significant increases out of a vehicle that could probably already get 45-50 mpg on gas alone (I'm thinking about the Yaris vs. Prius comparison).

    The minivan seems like low hanging fruit since city mileage is typically poor, family vehicles spend a lot of time in city driving shuttling family members from one event to another, and hybrids excel at improving city mileage. The 30 miles of pure electric just add to the savings. Of course, YMMV.
     
  19. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    That's exactly my thought. Every day we have to drive to and from school, etc. An electric is ideal for that. I have actually been looking at the Bolt not knowing the price... when the car never really gets warm (and you end up taking it on longer trips just to avoid polluting the oil), you're looking at 15-17 mpg.
     
  20. Cornupenuria

    Cornupenuria Well-Known Member

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    I'v already said it on another thread but I see the possibility that the hybrid may be AWD with fuel-engine-driven FWD and electric RWD. Acura MDX AWD Hybrid seems to have solved the throttle synchronization problems. There are some newer vehicles on the market now with the same combination.
     
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