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Is this the future of the Dodge Dart?

14K views 45 replies 19 participants last post by  Citation84 
#1 ·
The Dodge Dart will die in September. Long live the Dodge Dart. The Fiat Viaggio, essentially a Dart with a lower-cost suspension (hatchback, too, with Ottimo), will soon enter its second generation. Could the Viaggio be that Dart replacement we’ve heard about? Perhaps, this time, including the “Ottimo” hatchback form? If the 2018 Dodge Dart came in early-to-mid 2017, it would come just as the current stockpile of Darts was sold out. Volvo and GM have both shown that Americans have no compunction […]
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#2 ·
Thanks for the update Dave. We'll see how the replacement turns out. FCA needs entry-level cars...it's a glaring hole in their portfolio at the moment...and hopefully this new Dart will work for them. I agree that most consumers in this day and age don't really care where the car is made. As I've already said before, to walk away from the current Dart is IMHO a mistake...but, it is what it is, and if the Viaggio/Dart has been chosen as the way forward, hopefully the company does everything correctly: market/advertise it right, price it right, and stand behind it/service it so new customers are satisfied.
 
#4 ·
SM used a terribly short-sighted argument that US companies used to use: Fuel prices are low now, so no one's interested in cars with high gas mileage. Which is untrue. They simply demand that and much more, unlike in the 1970s and 80s. If FCA gives up on a full line, they are doomed, IMO. Stick with it and win a quality reputation back, and there is good chance of having a good presence in that market. They don't have to beat Corolla to be a recognized presence.
 
#5 ·
The Dart and 200 should not be discontinued. Their sales are doing just fine. The cars should be tweaked and improved until the next generation comes up. You don't kill an entire brands product line up. Once the 200 is gone, Chrysler will have two cars. Once the Dart is gone, Dodge will have no compact. No FCA compacts left, if you don't count Fiat which few people buy.

Gas mileage is important. I get more requests from people then anything, that they are looking for a car with GOOD FUEL MILEAGE. But hey... numbers don't lie. Dart has sold reasonably well, nearly 90,000 each year except the first. The 200 sold exceptionally well, better then any Chrysler product in recent memory with 177,000 sold in 2015, a very strong first year for the new generation 200. So it makes no sense to end the best selling Chrysler product since the 90s, especially when it is a really good, and underrated car.
 
#6 ·
But they sold with big rebates, and when the rebates ended or were reduced, sales fell dramatically. So they weren't selling on their own merit.
 
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#7 · (Edited)
It will take a long time to improve quality of Fiat Mopars, but much longer to the acceptance of American motorists. That long journey is made even longer when models are surrendered instead of receiving a long-term commitment to improvement. As we have seen, GM and other makers will redo a model when there are problems, which is what FiatCA should do.
 
#8 ·
The Civic, Corolla, Mazda 3 and the rest of these entry level cars didn't get to where they are over night. It took time money and perseverance. It was an investment by there perspective manufactures to get these cars up to there current level. In doing so they have garnered the driving publics trust and admiration. This in the end is what is driving there sales, not if we don't get the sales with the first try we're out. I myself was looking forward to the next generation. Oh well guess we'll have to wait and see. Maybe a hybrid sport truck...
 
#17 ·
I've heard it said that even Toyota and Honda lose money on their smaller cars, yet they still offer them. Because that's where potential long term customers come from. I know it's about FCA capacity, but personally, I'm just not in the market for a truck, SUV or minivan and I'm not a Jeep intender.
 
#9 ·
And on top of that, if the Dart moves to some Fiat design, it's kind of start over from the beginning, again, scenario. If it is a rebadged or simply a Viaggio to replace the Dart it has to not only compete competently, but better get good reviews on top of it. Yes, the Dart got a lot of reviews, but it didn't have enough positive to be very competitive. I continue to hope there is enough experience in the FCA arena to do what is right, cheap knock-offs or rebadged Fiats aren't going to do it, whatever it is needs to have American standards of durability, performance/handling, fuel mileage (something Ma Mopar has not really been known for), and reliability.
 
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#10 ·
And on top of that, if the Dart moves to some Fiat design
It already IS a Fiat design.

Again, if you can't compete on reputation, you have to complete with something else. All the additional techie stuff didn't really move the needle, and the performance isn't there (then again, how many would they have sold anyway?) - so the one thing you have left to compete on is price.

And when you can't do that without losing money, it's time to reconsider.
 
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#13 ·
Here is my take. I have an early production 2013 Dart SXT. I test drove the Hyundai Elantra, Ford Focus, and Honda Civic before purchase. I also owned a 2011 Chevy Cruze with the 1.4 turbo and have been unfortunately provided a Toyota Carolla as a rental on a business trip. The Dart is by far better than any of these. It is solid and has adequate technology. A close second was the Focus. These others are not up to par, regardless of their sales volume. It is a shame that the Dart is going away.
 
#16 · (Edited)
SM used a terribly short-sighted argument that US companies used to use: Fuel prices are low now, so no one's interested in cars with high gas mileage. Which is untrue. They simply demand that and much more, unlike in the 1970s and 80s. If FCA gives up on a full line, they are doomed, IMO. Stick with it and win a quality reputation back, and there is good chance of having a good presence in that market. They don't have to beat Corolla to be a recognized presence.
A company captures first time buyers with an entry level car. Their next next purchase may be a bigger one from the same company, or another product from that company, if the car is reliable, satisfying and a good representative of the brand's wares.

Long term planning in short supply with equally short memories.
There was no reason the Dart couldn't have been a springboard for sales of new, higher margin product from Chrysler, and a whole new younger demographic exposed to it's offerings.

GM is a prime example of this sort of short term thinking: G3, Corporate mini vans, badge engineering just to have "something to sell in the segment" for their many brands.
 
#19 ·
The Dart also isn’t the right car to establish a small-car reputation, for various reasons, and I speak as an owner. It doesn’t blast the competition out of the water like the Neon (stick) did; nor does it have a more attractive, big-car feel than most competitors, as the Reliant/Aries did. It isn’t beating everyone on the numbers or in sportiness as the original Valiant did, for that matter. It’s a good car for the right audience. IMHO, they’d need to do a full-press effort to specifically fill that niche, without borrowing or rushing, preferably as a skunkworks operation — full empowerment, cohesive team, etc — but as a corporate priority — e.g. Tipo — would also work. The Tipo does what it does very well, from what I understand, as the result of extra time spent in engineering for that purpose. I suspect the Dart had mixed messages coming from the leadership in terms of its goals. To be sporty? To be economical? What was the #1 goal? Can you tell?
 
#20 ·
I still think the Dart got a bad rap. It was not marketed properly. Look at the Cruze back in 2010-2011, Chevy marketed the heck out of that thing and it sold. I had one, it was the biggest POS I have ever owned, but I bit on the marketing. The turbo just couldn't handle Texas heat 6 months a year. My Dart is just fine at 65K. I have had no problems, other than creaking in the front end. And that just needed some good old fashioned grease. I think it is as good as any other compact out there, if not better. She is 4 years old now and I thought about a replacement. There simply isn't anything out there in the class that I like, but the Dart.
 
#21 ·
I looked back at an old 2013 Dart brochure. Even there the confusion was rampant. It had Alfa Romeo DNA. Charger inspired tail lights. It was a compact car, but had midsize room.
It pained me reading the sales brochure - hardly their best effort.
 
#22 ·
I looked back at an old 2013 Dart brochure. Even there the confusion was rampant. It had Alfa Romeo DNA. Charger inspired tail lights. It was a compact car, but had midsize room.
It pained me reading the sales brochure - hardly their best effort.
I remember feeling nauseous with how much they were pushing the "Alfa DNA" thing. Most Americans probably didn't know what an Alfa Romeo was - how was that going to help sell the car here?
 
#24 ·
While I understand there were some issues on some of the Darts, especially the early-built ones, what doesn't get pointed enough is that I'll bet the car might have sold better if the gas prices were a dollar or more higher. Think about it. The low gas prices have a lot of people in trucks and large SUVs. Were gas prices to change significantly in the future, I think we know there will be renewed interest in compacts and subcompacts. I think that was possibly the biggest factor in the sales of the Fiat 500. Higher gas prices would have gotten more people to at least to come in and consider one. I feel like people want to find issues with both cars, while other factors may have had more of an influence than is realized.
 
#26 ·
There is a Torred 2016 Dart at one of the area dealers which seems to have my name on it. Have looked at pictures of it online and have looked at it in the evening after the dealership closed. And, as you might guess, it is discounted from the Monroney listed MSRP. Has been a couple years since I got to test drive a Dart, so it seems like I've got to get back to drive one again. But, I'll drive a new 200 and a Charger, too, to be sure what they all are like.
 
#30 ·
Thanks for the update Dave. We'll see how the replacement turns out. FCA needs entry-level cars...it's a glaring hole in their portfolio at the moment...and hopefully this new Dart will work for them. I agree that most consumers in this day and age don't really care where the car is made. As I've already said before, to walk away from the current Dart is IMHO a mistake...but, it is what it is, and if the Viaggio/Dart has been chosen as the way forward, hopefully the company does everything correctly: market/advertise it right, price it right, and stand behind it/service it so new customers are satisfied.
I agree getting rid of the Dart and the Chrysler 200 are a HUGE mistake. I prefer a sedan over an SUV, so a few years down the road when I need another car what am I supposed to do? The entry level Dart...gone. The 200...gone. I know FCR sells tons of Jeeps, but I feel getting rid of sedans is VERY short sighted.
 
#31 ·
I disagree, I think this was a wise move on FCA's part. They haven't had a competitive compact car since the Neon. On the other hand, Jeep makes very popular compact and subcompact SUVs (so does FIAT, but they don't have enough dealers). Ultimately you have to go with your strengths if you want to be a successful business. The 500x, Renegade, and upcoming Compass can all serve as entry level stand-ins for compact sedans, and that's where the market is moving anyway. It does make some sense: as cars have gotten lower to the ground for increased fuel economy, people have gone to taller cars to compensate, since some of the roads out there are on the crappy side. Then there's the whole hatchback thing.

This may sound heartless, but if you're looking for a trunk you're getting to be in the minority, if you aren't already. I predict other manufacturers will also reduce and consolidate their car lineups as demand continues to decline. Rising fuel prices won't make a difference this time, not when the majority of SUVs are CUVs with car-like fuel economy anyway. With Jeep seemingly able to print money at will, the continuing crossover craze, and RAM's relative strength in the commercial market, it just makes sense for FCA to focus on those areas where they shine, in order to improve their cash flow to do other things later.
 
#32 ·
I may buy a Dart "in protest". In other words, how dare FCR cancel the Dart. I owned a Neon until 2015 and I LOVED that car. I say bring on the Viaggio. If people don't trust/like Italian cars rename it Dart II and have a base price of $12,000. It will sell like hotcakes.
 
#33 ·
I have to say I really enjoy my Dart more and more. I don't enjoy all the little things breaking all the time, but I do like the car.

My guess is that they truly lost a LOT of money on them due to the warranty costs.
 
#35 ·
Our Neon was pretty reliable over 1x0,000 miles. Exhaust donut under warranty, head gasket under warranty. One adjustment of all windows at the window shop (four at the dealer that didn't work). Turn signal switch that I replaced. This is about nine years.

Dart: some sensor before I got it, cruise control module, bluetooth module, one speaker going bad, creaks and rattles from pretty much everywhere. (I might be forgetting something.) This is about three years.
 
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