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It's not just products that FCA needs to improve on.....

Discussion in 'Mopar News' started by DBY2014, Oct 3, 2016.

  1. UN4GTBL

    UN4GTBL Allpar Legacy

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    The guy that we buy from, (and whom I refer others to) is pretty good. I know when I'm involved in buying something I've done a lot of research on that particular vehicle, so I don't necessarily expect that level of knowledge from him, but he's pretty good. Definitely a rarity though.

    Yeah I saw that too.

    I am hoping that they typed "port" instead of "pod" and the dealer had just misplaced the WiTech (or whatever they use now)

    If the OBD port is "misplaced" then we have bigger issues!
     
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  2. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

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    Those were an issue on my 2001 DGC. The first time I replaced them with Mopar OEM busings, from the dealership. They only lasted 6 months. Then I bought MOOG replacements and never had a problem with them again. Cheaper too.
     
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  3. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

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    Rarity for sure. When I go back to then dealership, about a 5 year spread, I usually don't recognize anyone there Lol!:p
     
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  4. Robert Johnson

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    When I replaced the motor mounts on my PT last month I asked the service writer at the indy shop that I have gone to for years if there were better replacements than the stock ones. His answer: "They are all s**T". OK, at least I did not have to deal with the dealer and pay a lot more for crappy motor mounts.
     
  5. Ian

    Ian Car Freak

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    We had a dealer like that. They had not updated the place in like 30 years...They were amazing. Family owned, at the end, the owner was close to 95 yrs old and his wife was the receptionist.

    The dealer we deal with now is OK...but lacking communication between the customer and service advisor.
     
  6. Robert Johnson

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    Oh, the entire Edmunds Pacifica key fiasco was caused when the dealer transferred the van and sent the wrong set of original keys and only sent the valet key with it. Of course it had to happen to a magazine doing a LT test. What a bunch of boobs.
     
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  7. 04RAMSRT10

    04RAMSRT10 Well-Known Member

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    Dealerships, well in the eyes of the customer, they are the company. They control and represent almost every part of the ownership process. Certainly the purchase, so many play all sorts of games with bait and switch advertising, loan rates, various insurance pushes and let's not forget DOC fees. Some states have limits on this but not all do. I have seen some DOC fees as high as $799. I will not pay it unless there is no other choice. This topic is spot on and the company would be wise to better it's dealer through training and various other programs. They have made a big shift in the building having a certain appearance which is nice but if the people are rotten the building is worthless. Every service department I have used is pretty bad. I do all my work and won't even use warranty for most things.
     
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  8. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    And sadly a lot of those types of dealerships were purged in the bankruptcy.
     
  9. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly there are still quite a few of them around. I know this dealership. They must be doing something right, because there is a dealer to the east of them that sells quite a few cars as well. That dealer used to be not such a good place, but has made mega strides in the last 10 years as well.
     
  10. geraldg

    Ad-Free Member

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    I have been following this tread and here is my statement. As I said before I work as a shuttle driver part time for a KIA dealership. This dealership is owned by one of the largest companies here. Every customer that comes into service get a opinion poll as to was service advisor good and a variety of things about the dealership. The service advisors are very concerned to get high ratings. Also the service dept is very good. Almost all people I shuttle are happy with the cars and the service they get. So they keep coming back for service and to buy another car. The sales dept is not high pressure and tries to get the best deal for the customer. What I am saying is if you treat the customer with honesty and respect they will come back. So maybe the FCA dealers should look around and realize that the customer is no 1 , and return customers are no 1. The return customer is your bread and butter. If a customer has a problem they try to resolve it and most of the time they do.
     
  11. UN4GTBL

    UN4GTBL Allpar Legacy

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    Actually, another rare thing, he's been there for 10 years!

    Yeah

    One mistake (I'll give them the benefit of the doubt) and it's crazy how much time and expense has been the result? (how much has been charged to warranty?) Never mind the bad publicity!
     
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  12. CherokeeVision

    CherokeeVision Well-Known Member

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    I would say the beginning of the fiasco was when the dealer sent the wrong keys.
    After that there have been multiple other issues trying to get the correct keys.
    One overnight package was the solution.
    It has been three weeks. So far.
     
  13. Robert Johnson

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    True.
     
  14. Rick Anderson

    Rick Anderson Well-Known Member

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    Actually, in this particular case there is an argument that FCA is just as much to blame as the Dealership. Since all the manufacturers are doing the same thing, then fairly the manufacturers are as much to blame as their Dealerships in these "key" fiasco's.

    Sure, these new electronic keys are a benefit with the added security and extra features.

    But the manufacturers are taking advantage of consumer ignorance, with owners blissfully assuming these keys are so complex they have to pay the insane prices and sever inconvenience that the Manufacturer and Dealers tell them. Getting a new key could cost you more than $500 at the Dealership and the Dealership is the only place you can go to get them.

    The reality?
    Yes, the keys costs several times over what old simple metal keys costs.
    So the manufacturers, instead of paying a penny a unit for key blanks, they are now paying $5-$7 a unit for these electronic keys. And the manufacturer is charging the Dealership more than $300 per unit for a blank electronic key.
    If the Dealerships were really marking up $7 key blanks to $500, then the Dealerships would be supplying spares on contingent for the sale, the number of vehicles purchased at dealerships with only one key is shocking. Especially used vehicles, even more shocking the number of new vehicles only coming with one key. Buyers instead get some sob story about how the key was lost, or how the previous owner only had one key. The potential buyer can stomp and fume all he wants, the salesman will let him walk away from the deal, cause he knows supplying a key to replace the missing key will wipe out any profit the dealership would make on the vehicle. And owners get used to having just one key and guarding it with their life, knowing how expensive it would be to replace.

    Lost Key Insurance? You've got to be %)*#()*%_ Me! The manufacturers have made keys a nightmare for owners, and their solution, instead of unscrewing what they put in motion, is too instead come up with a new product/service to hock to buyers? Really?

    The Dealership service department that screws up these keys, granted bad on the Dealership, the Service Advisor and Techs just had to read a couple of pages in a book to get it right, and they couldn't be bothered to do that and just guessed, so of course they got it wrong.

    But, this is probably the first time ever in 10 years this Dealership service department has ever had to make a copy of an electronic key. No one can afford copies of these keys, who the heck brought a vehicle in for spare keys? Oh, a magazine on a long term test, that corporate will foot the bill for the keys, ahhh, that is why they're going to get a spare keys. So its no wonder the advisors and techs are totally lost with these complex key system and the growing number of options they are capable of?

    The manufactures are the ones behind the gross, insane over charging for the key blanks themselves. The manufacturers are the ones so lacking in imagination, they can only come up with key making procedures that require the vehicle be inducted into service. The Manufacturers and Dealers can share the blame that they are so inefficient that inducting a vehicle into service is a minimum of an hour in the waiting room, often longer. That is why some people are paying $120 over the already insane price of the key itself, since the manufacturer designed the programming and service procedures, some dealer's that the cheapest you can get the vehicle inducted into service.

    Meanwhile, hardware stores and locksmiths used to cut the key as part of the price for the blank.

    Old metal keys, copies were a dollar and a few minutes at the hardware store counter.
    Transponder keys, were bad at first, but they were open enough, once the aftermarket got involved, it was 10's of dollars and a few minutes at the hardware store.
    The RFID/electronic keys, the technology is NOT so exotic it can't be done far more efficiently and easier for the consumer, it could be 10's of dollars and a few minutes at a dealer/locksmith, perhaps a hardware store would compromise the level of security. But instead, its hundreds of dollars, often $500 or more, and more than hour sitting in a dealer waiting room to have it made. That is more the manufacturer's fault than the dealerships, and owners are suffering all sorts of complications from how inaccessible or unaffordable/inconvenient replacing or having spare keys are.

    I don't disagree with anything said here, I agree the quality of Dealership service and the number of dealer's just outright ripping off customers is a huge problem for all brands and especially FCA. I'm just adding, when it comes to these electronic keys, there is plenty of finger pointing that should be directed toward the manufacturers, probably more than the Dealerships in most cases.
     
    #54 Rick Anderson, Oct 4, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
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  15. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

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    I don't have a problem with sales people not knowing everything about the vehicles, they may not nessisarily have an interest in what they are selling, just like other people selling other things, it's just a job. I am usually informed, have done my research first and know what it is I am looking for. I don't plan to go into a dealership and ambush the sales person with a barrage of history & fact questions. I do however dislike it when I tell them what I am looking for and they try and tell me what I "really need" or when I tell them I am looking for these options and they tell me "you can't get that on those vehicles." I then usually pick up the brochure laying on the table and turn to the second last page and show them.
    They usually seem to be disconnected with the service department too. The service department will say the salesman didn't know what he was talking about and the salesman will say that he doesn't know what's going on with the service department.
     
  16. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

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    It's true. During my last purchase, they offered the key insurance to me for $200. Their argument was that if I lost a key it would cost me $500 to replace. It comes with plastic tags for your keys, that you register with a company called "Return Me Global Recovery Service" they also have a phone app that you can use to add other items you don't want to loose, for a fee of course. My response was, "I'll take my chances." Lol They seemed to think it was an unreasonable request, but I thought the $200 price was unreasonable also.
    I guess it's just another means for dealers to make some profit on the (as mentioned earlier) "back end" of the sale.
     
  17. Rick Anderson

    Rick Anderson Well-Known Member

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    Oh, the mechanical key inserts not working in the lock cylinders, that was in the article. The early FOBIKs had the center "spine" channel offset on the body of the key. This prevented the key cutting machines from having the correct reference to make the cuts to correct depth. I know, I had a hardware shop cut me new key inserts with their generic key cutting machine, none of them worked. There must be a special key cutting machine for these inserts. Likely its the same with the new electronic keys for the Pacifica.

    Again, this likely falls on the dealership NOT buying the equipment corporate tells them they must have, and instead the Dealer goes on his own program purchasing aftermarket equipment. I bet this dealer also has those B&G Transmission Flush Machines and hocks transmissions flushes to customers, despite their being TSB's out with FCA recommending against flushing transmissions.

    Yea, the Salesmen have to learn multiple vehicles, while the one we're interested in is the only one we learn. And you have to admit, the personality that makes a good salesman, is NOT the same as people that can learn and retain a ton of useful information about vehicles.

    Sadly, a majority of buyers aren't even considering the vehicle "they really need", that actually fits their needs and wants, they want to buy a vehicle that fits the image they want to project, and they often can't afford it.

    But, for the most part I agree with you, salesmen are frustrating it often seems there are more bad ones than good ones.

    The Dealerships are poorly run, and the reason they are poorly run is the leadership from the owner/primary manager. If their priority was to provide quality service to the customers, then would be paying attention and ensure sales and service departments are connected. Techs are trained and do the job right the first time without taking shortcuts. they look up what they need to know and don't just guess, etc.

    The Dealerships owners set their priority at racking in as much money as they can. People complain here or there, techs screw up hear or there, they get corporate breathing down their neck, but nothing ever comes of it, cause corporate knows they'll just be hurting themselves if they actually ever carry through on their threats, so they're just ignored. And the money keeps coming in. When the money stops coming in, since that is priority number one, then Dealership owner will finally take notice and do something.

    And that is the crux of the problem, Consumer Ignorance, no matter how bad the Dealership is, the customers keep coming and handing over their money. They have no idea what is wrong with their vehicle or how to fix it, they don't look for alternatives and they just go to the dealership and bend over and grab their ankles.
     
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  18. jerseyjoe

    jerseyjoe Plymouth Makes It

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    Even the ones that survived have changed.
     
  19. Rick Anderson

    Rick Anderson Well-Known Member

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    OMG:eek: This is even worse. I was assuming it was some sort of service like roadside assistance, if you lost a key they would provide you replacement, to include towing the vehicle to the dealership if it was necessary because there was no key available. $200 is high even for that level of service.

    (The new RFID chip keys, the cars electronic modules are actually programmed to accept the unique ID of the RFID key, the key itself is NOT programmed at all, its actually the car that gets programmed to accept the key and let it start and drive it). So the Car has to be physically at the Dealership and the car connected to the machinery to get a proper working spare key.

    So, for $200 all you get is this lost and found service that hopes a good Samaritan finds your key it will eventually get returned to you. ^&0(&*)*&() that is just B.S.
     
  20. jerseyjoe

    jerseyjoe Plymouth Makes It

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    Had a guy say that about my Shelby Charger, because of lack of respect for me and my car, never went back. Had that that car for 20 years.
     

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