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JL Wrangler shows up in dealer computers with features/options/packages

Discussion in 'Mopar News' started by kilgore, Aug 7, 2017.

  1. Erik Latranyi

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    I simply hope they reconsider offering the 2.4 as the base in the Cherokee when the 2.0 Hurricane is available.

    The right thing is to make the 2.0 Hurricane the base engine and the 3.2 Pentastar as the option.

    Keeping the 2.4 around is a bad decision.
     
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  2. DarkSky

    DarkSky Moderator
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    I agree with you that the 2.4 should go away, but we need to know the power figures for the 2.0 before deciding whether it should be the base engine. If it has numbers close to the V6, that wouldn't be very effective.
     
  3. Erik Latranyi

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    The 2.0 Turbo Hurricane in the Alfa Giulia produces 280 hp / 306 lb-ft torque. Expect a little less in the Jeep application
     
  4. aldo90731

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    I don't see mainstream Jeepers embracing a 2.0 turbo, regardless of the specs. Wrangler owners tend to be of a very traditional mindset and, as it is, they haven't minded poor fuel economy. Plus there's a lot of derision already about Fiat owning Jeep.

    My guess is where a 2.0 turbo may find an application is mostly for export markets, and among those buying into the brand without planning to take their Wrangler offroad.
     
    #184 aldo90731, Aug 12, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
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  5. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    Engine, as from dealers informatic system is "2.0 I4 DOHC DI Turbo engine with BSG (Belt Starter Generator)":

    1) the Belt Starter Generator technology is presented in FCA sustainability reports as the technology that will be used for "mild hybrid".
    In most "mild hybrids" BSG is not used only in regenerative function when engine is off-load or to start the engine, but also as e-boost, supplementing the engine with extra torque (and power) at low rpm (or when needed).
    To note also that going downhill offroad the BSG in regenerative mode will have as side effect an extra braking action (working on load can be also reduced/incremented).

    2) turbocharger: higher altitude = less power/torque decrease vs. naturally aspirated engines.

    3) direct injection + valves control strategies ("scavenging"): allows higher low torque. (check 1750 TBi DOHC engine "scavenging")
     
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  6. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    For european market there is also another version of GME T4 with 147 kW / 197 HP maximum power at 5000 rpm and 330 Nm / 243 lb ft (ECE) of maximum torque at 1750 rpm.
    All use MultiAir module.
     
  7. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator
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    That would be a terrible engine choice in the heavy Wrangler IMHO. Lots of low end torque, but not enough.

    Mike
     
  8. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    It was just to show that with turbocharger and direct injection/valve opening strategies they can get more torque at lower rpm.

    If I should guess it will output more than 400 Nm / 295 lb ft at less than 2000 rpm and something less than 400 Nm / 295 lb ft at 1400 rpm. That without the BSG.

    Why?
    In the Giulietta , special edition 280 CV for South Africa, with the 1750 TBi, that is direct injection and VVT, maximum torque was 380 Nm at 2000 rpm. And that torque is limited by transaxle maximum input.
    380 Nm from 1742 cc engine are 218 Nm / 160 lb ft per liter.

    For BSG there is at least one FCA patent that describes strategies to momentary increase torque by using the BSG.
    "(WO2015073354) TORQUE MANAGEMENT TECHNIQUES FOR ENGINE SYSTEMS HAVING BELT-DRIVEN STARTER GENERATORS"
    https://patentscope.wipo.int/search...prevFilter=&sortOption=Pub+Date+Desc&maxRec=4

    From summary:
    "... The method can include determining a current engine torque capacity. When the desired torque output is greater than the current engine torque capacity, the method can include (i) determining a maximum engine torque capacity, (ii) determining a current BSG torque capacity, (iii) commanding the BSG to operate as a torque generator or a torque consumer based on a difference between the desired torque output and the maximum engine torque capacity and a state of a battery system configured to power the BSG, and (iv) controlling the engine and the BSG to collectively generate the desired torque output at a flywheel of the engine. ..."
     
  9. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator
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    You cannot use a car like the Giulletta as and example to compare against the Wrangler. Doing so means you are ignoring the weight of the Wrangler itself, gear ratios, the 4 wheel drive system, and the weight/height of the tires being driven.

    Mike
     
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  10. AutoTechnician

    AutoTechnician Well-Known Member

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    It's not any worse than the old 3.8 V6. It'd be an acceptable base engine, especially coupled with the 8-speed automatic. The ZF8 speed with 3.55:1 gears has the same effective 1st gear ratio as the 5-speed auto with 4.56:1 gears.
     
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  11. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator
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    The 3.8 was not acceptable, neither is this.

    Mike
     
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  12. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    I was not comparing the Giulietta, just the output per liter that can deliver the engines with DOHC and direct injection and scavenging valve opening strategy that is built by FCA.

    Actual Wrangler with 2.8 CRD 200 CV diesel engine has a maximum torque output of 460 Nm in the range 1.600-2.600 rpm (the engine can deliver higher output but is limited due to transmissions components).
     
  13. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator
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    You can not compare output per liter without considering the vehicle the engine is going to be installed in.

    Even the old VM2.8 did not make enough power, which is why many of us were hoping for the revised L424 if FCA chose to retain the four cylinder diesel for domestic or export.

    Mike
     
  14. Ruptured Duck

    Ruptured Duck Active Member

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    Lets not forget this aspect as well...

    Brick egg.gif
     
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  15. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    In actual JK the problem with the 2.8 is/was not the engine itself but some components of transmission.

    If maximum torque of automatic version is 460 Nm in range 1,600-2,600 rpm, but with the 6 speed manual Euro 5b, not more in the market, the maximum torque was decreased to maximum of 410 Nm at 2,000 rpm.

    VM Motori A428 DOHC, the 2.8 engine, maximum torque from its datasheet is 500 Nm at 2,000 - 3,200 rpm.

    And the GM 2.8 Duramax LWN I4, an engine derived from VM Motori 2.8, used in Chevrolet Colorado, has a maximum output of 369 lb ft / 500 Nm at 2,000 rpm.

    And it is not something unusual in FCA vehicles to limit maximum torque or torque in some gears.

    For example Fiat Ducato / Ram Promaster diesel engine has a maximum torque of 400 Nm since that is the limit of the transaxle C546 (M40) (automated manual or manual).

    C635 has a standard limit of 350 Nm, and several of the cars that use it has that torque limit.
    For 948TE is 480 for gasoline engines, but 450 Nm for diesel engines.
     
    #195 MJAB, Aug 14, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
  16. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    And infact I made the examples of engines with maximum torque at low rpm and how much torque could output in a smaller displacement engine.

    It was better I had write that I could estimate 430 Nm or more at lets say 1400 - 1750 rpm without the BSG were possible for GME T4, without giving any idea from where that number were derived.

    The reference to other vehicles is to show that that numbers could be potentially possible using technologies already used by FCA since 2009.
     
    #196 MJAB, Aug 14, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
  17. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    If it helps, the 2.0 should be more powerful and have more low end torque than the old 4.0 liter six.
     
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  18. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator
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    Agreed, but the 4.0 was used in generally lighter weight Jeeps.

    Mike
     
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  19. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    The 4.0 was the big engine option for the CJ and Wrangler.

    The 3.8 replaced it.

    In fact, the only Jeeps with bigger engines that I can recall are the non-selling J series and old style Wagoneer...?

    I know the CJ was light and could get away with it, but the Wrangler was not.
     
  20. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator
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    Comparing 2 door to 2 door, the JK weighs just over 500 pounds more than TJ when the JK debuted... the JK has actually gained some weight since then.

    The JK Unlimited weighs even more.

    Mike
     

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