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Let's speak about the quality in our products and more...

Discussion in 'Rumors and Speculation' started by Mr.Source, Oct 17, 2017.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Socially Unacceptable
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    If the only reason you have to post is to be critical of other people or their opinions, I suggest you refrain from doing so.

    If you have a problem with someone's post I suggest following valiant's advice above.
     
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  2. CherokeeVision

    CherokeeVision Well-Known Member

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    Boss has a mix of Silverados and Transit Connects as vehicles for our technicians.
    There have been some issues with a couple of the Transit Connects that has the boss reconsidering buying anymore of them in the future.
    Due to truly ancient experiences with Chrysler brand vehicles the boss is unwilling to take a chance on any Ram vans.

    When FCA has to attempt to fight perceptions like this it sure needs to be extremely careful not to do anything to sour current and possible future owners.
     
  3. DBY2014

    DBY2014 Active Member

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    Not sure what to think. Since we are talking about quality the comment from my friend worries me. I'm afraid FCA is going to push out a vehicle that isn't up to par because they know they have the demand for it already. I hope they take their time and get it right before they sell it. I kind of have my doubts though to be honest. It's going to be interesting to see what happens in Toledo once full production ramps up and what they are actually going to do with the Wrangler truck production. Some feel there won't be enough positions to sustain the workforce they have now and the young hires are going to be pushed out by the senior workers. We will see. I hope everything is a success for FCA and they are listening.
     
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  4. aldo90731

    Level III Supporter

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    There was a time when I would have purchased a Chrysler vehicle in its first year —and have: 2005 Chrysler 300 SRT-8; 2006 Dodge Magnum SRT-8; 2012 Chrysler 300S V6/8-speed (which ended in a buy back); 2012 Chrysler 300 SRT; 2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon with Pentastar 3.6.

    But having already had FCA buy back one of my vehicles; reading ongoing reports of FCA’s inability —or unwillingness— to thoroughly test products before launch; seeing my brother struggle with his 2015 Renegade; with new vehicles’ growing complexity and prices rising faster than my income, I now prefer to sit back and wait for others to play FCA’s Petri dish.

    PS - both times we got burned buying a vehicle in its first year have been under current management: 2012 Chrysler 300S and 2015 Renegade. Although the multiple issues with the 300S were created by the selling dealer’s questionable auto show practices; those with the Renegade are exacerbated by unavailability of parts, and by the servicing dealer’s improper diagnosis and need for multiple visits to repair the same thing.

    PS2 - all but one of the issues with my brother’s Renegade have been resolved. Two months ago it died in the car wash and then restarted inexplicably. The dealer can’t replicate the issue and my brother and sister-in-law have no time —or energy left— to deal with it. So the vehicle, with only 10,000 miles, just sits in the driveway week after week. It’s both infuriating and sad. I don’t see either of them considering another FCA product.
     
    #804 aldo90731, Dec 1, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  5. DBY2014

    DBY2014 Active Member

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    I had a 2013 Dart which was a second year production vehicle and it was still horrendous quality wise. I now have had my 2017 Civic for 10 weeks and haven't been to the dealer yet. Kind of strange to me to be honest, not used to this.
     
  6. aldo90731

    Level III Supporter

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    Sorry to see you defect. It hurts to read of people actually leaving. But it’s understandable. Thank you for sharing.

    BTW - congratulations on your 2017 Civic. I love the size and the new styling. Honda did a superb job with it.
     
    #806 aldo90731, Dec 1, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  7. DBY2014

    DBY2014 Active Member

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    It's the powertrain of the Civic that blew me away. That 1.5 turbo is a gem. Hard to believe I can go 0-60 in under 7 seconds and still get 40+ mpg. It has the handling of the Dart without the harsh ride. I didn't want to do it but didn't have options from FCA anymore. The thing is, if I end up having a good experience with Honda, I will most likely get a CRV when my wife's 2013 Dodge Journey's warranty is up. Our Journey hasn't been the best experience either.
     
  8. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    2013 was the first model year for the Dart.
     
  9. aldo90731

    Level III Supporter

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    My 2015 JKU had developed an annoying rattle coming from the rear. Dropped it off at the dealership this morning to have it looked at. Turns out, a "rear axle bearing" broke. It will be one week for the parts to arrive; still covered under warranty since Jeep only has 22,000 miles.

    But things like this make me think twice about keeping an FCA product past the warranty period.
     
    #809 aldo90731, Dec 1, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  10. iNeon

    iNeon Well-Known Member

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    My 2015 is the loosest, lowest quality car I’ve ever owned.

    I had a 25 year-old Volvo 245 and a 30 year-old Mercedes 240D that rattled less.

    The Dart is trash.

    I’m pretty sure the turbo bearings are going out. The driver’s seat structure just into my lumbar— every trim piece rattles— and im pretty sure the shocks and engine mounts are blown-out.

    Has 35k on it. It isn’t going to last the payments reliably.
     
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  11. DBY2014

    DBY2014 Active Member

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    Duh, that's right. not sure what I was thinking. It felt like mine was second year since so much time spanned between the manuals and automatics when they were introduced. I remember thinking since I got one built in Nov 2012 that some of the bugs were worked out since they were producing them since April I believe. Bought it in January 2013 and first day I had it the remote start would start the car but then it would immediately shut down. Bought the car and then went out to dinner with the family to celebrate. I tried to be cool and start the car from the restaurant and it didn't work. I was so embarrassed. Turned out there was an issue with the remote start in very cold temperatures and I waited over a month for them to issue a software fix for it so it would work if it was below freezing. That's the kind of stuff you just shake your head at with FCA.
     
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  12. aldo90731

    Level III Supporter

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    Upon reading the entire service order:

    "WITH VEHICLE ON HOIST AND TRANSMISSION IN DRIVE...CAN SEE BOTH REAR WHEELS WOBBLE. REMOVED THE REAR WHEELS AND INSPECTED THE REAR AXLES. BY HAND CAN FEEL EXCESSIVE PLAY IN REAR AXLES IN A SIDE TO SIDE MOVEMENT AND TOP TO BOTTOM OF AXLE, IN AND OUT MOVEMENT. THE EXCESSIVE PLAY IS ON BOTH SIDES. THERE IS NO VISUAL DAMAGE TO ANY WHEEL BOTH AXLES ARE BENT; MANUFACTURE DEFECT THAT CAUSE REAR VIBRATION AND RATTLE. RATTLE IS FROM EXCESSIVE PLAY IN REAR AXLE BEARINGS, WHICH WAS CAUSED BY THE REAR AXLES BEING BENT, AND OVER THE SHORT LIFE OF THE VEHICLE HAVE CAUSED LOOSENESS IN BEARINGS. BOTH REAR AXLE ASSEMBLIES NEED TO BE REPLACED, ALONG WITH THE AXLE."

    Yikes! Now I have to figure out if I get to keep the Detroit TrueTrac and 4.10 gearing I had added one year ago. If not, I may have to come up with Plan B.
     
    #812 aldo90731, Dec 1, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  13. Erik Latranyi

    Level III Supporter

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    Based on this, would you trust the untried Dana 35 on the JL?
     
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  14. UN4GTBL

    Level 2 Supporter

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    My Caliber is like that.

    A "first" model year, but because the 2007 MY was so long for the Caliber I had hoped it would have been ok.

    ...it wasn't
     
  15. aldo90731

    Level III Supporter

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    Nope.

    This is the 2nd time I get a busted rear axle on a JK. The first time was when my 2009 Rubicon busted a rear locker; Chrysler had the dealer replace the entire axle. It was cheaper to do that than fix the locker.

    This time is more complicated: I have an aftermarket Detroit TrueTrac and regearing to 4.10. If FCA replaces the axle, that opens a can of worms because (1) the regearing affects the front axle as well, and (2) I will lose the TrueTrac, which cost me $800 to buy and have installed, and which I happen to love.

    I don't even do extreme off-roading. My style of off-roading can best described as moderate: I have 33.5x10.5" tires on OE wheels. But the trusted rear D44 doesn't seem to handle it well...or I am very unlucky. Either way, I don't know that I would want to go through this with a D35.

    UPDATE:

    The rattle that got me to the dealership sounded like a loose exhaust mount or shock bracket. It sounded like something that was hanging was loose. Although I am no expert, usually worn bearings are accompanied by a whine. There was no whine, no grind, no squeak; just a loose rattle. I never had any indication there was anything wrong with the rear axle either. None. Zero. I was surprised when they came back with a worn bearing diagnosis and the bent axle story.

    They also indicated I have a dented fuel tank skid plate, which I knew I did. I had dented it off-roading. They insisted is has to be replaced, at a cost of $900. Failure to do so would result in a punctured fuel tank, eventually making the repair twice as expensive.

    Nine-hundred US dollars to replace a skid plate is simply excessive. I can have it replaced with a sturdier aftermarket unit for less than half that amount; including labor.

    Whatever that rattle was, is gone since I picked up the Jeep. I drove it thoroughly: they took care of it. Which now begs the question: if indeed the bearings are worn and the axle is bent then how is the rattle gone? Add to that the insistence that I spend $900 to replace a $350 skid plate, and the image I start to form in my head is not pleasant.

    Here’s a more logical sequence of events:

    The rattle was indeed something simple, like a loose exhaust mount, which took them 5 minutes to take care of. But now they have an opportunity to stick FCA with an axle replacement warranty job, which would run into several thousands of dollars. Plus the added opportunity to gouge an unsuspecting customer by replacing a skid plate at an exorbitant rate.

    They turn a five minute fix into a $8,000 work order. There’s your Christmas bonus, Mr. Service Advisor.
     
    #815 aldo90731, Dec 1, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
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  16. Christopher

    Christopher Socially Unacceptable
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    That is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. It is a problem when employees get bonuses and commissions on things like that. It is a recipe for unnecessary repairs.

    It seems that if they said, "Hey aldo, we fixed the problem. It was x and was a simple fix. We also noticed you have a dented skid plate, we can replace it for y. If you go offroading it could may not protect the tank as well as it should, but isn't an issue for everyday use.* The cost for the rattle will be (reasonable cost.).

    *assuming that is true.

    My personal experience is that if you don't try to screw me over, I'm more likely give you *more* business when I *do* need it.
     
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  17. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    .

    Norm was invaluable for moments like these ...

    Would you, instead, ever consider buying a late model which has been Built by an acknowledged expert?

    In other words, would you trust a trusted Jeeper to sell a nicely put together, purpose-bilt reconditioned unit without factory warranty? Just buying it for the sake of having a 4-by-Vehicle which has basically been "Put Together the way it ought to be" ? The right factory parts married-up with all the right after-market pieces for a solid finished unit.

    I'm not a Jeeper, but I do wonder if that will turn out to be the way forward, ultimately. If there'd be any caveat, it would have to be to what degree, or to what percent would the reconditioned Jeep remain factory?

    .
     
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  18. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    .

    Wife and I need a car. This was on the list with a few others. Thank you for the positive input; and the casual comparo ( Dart v Civic ).

    If you had the 1.4L Turbo in the Dodge, then the ' Point/Counter-point ' involving Honda power is quite reasonable and helpful.

    The Civic and the CRV are true players in their respective segments; and no doubt retain quite a bit in resale .

    Congratulations on your new ride.

    .
     
  19. aldo90731

    Level III Supporter

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    I don't mind going to trusted aftermarket specialist for off-road work. I have done so many times. But before I drop several thousand dollars, regardless of whether the vehicle is under warranty or not, I need to know what is the mechanical condition of the vehicle so that I can assess if it is worth spending money on it.

    I never got any indication that there may be anything wrong with my JK's rear axle. It was a total surprise when the dealer brought up that I had a bent axle from the factory.

    So, earlier this afternoon I was wondering: did I spend $1,700 last year re-gearing and adding a TrueTrac to an axle that came bent from the factory?

    Based on my lengthy drive tonight, I seriously doubt there's anything wrong with the axle, or with the Jeep.
     
    #819 aldo90731, Dec 1, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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  20. aldo90731

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    Indeed. It is called trust.

    Before I sold my 2013 Rubicon, it had developed a clunky noise when you turned the steering wheel full lock. I brought the Jeep to my CDJR dealership of many years, who a year prior had replaced the factory steering tie rod and drag link at a cost of $1,200. Back then, the Service Manager, a fellow Jeeper, had told me that the factory components had worn out after only 10,000 miles from trying to tame the heavy 35" General tires I had mounted; so I dutifully obliged, got the parts and had the dealership do the labor, and the Rubicon did feel significantly improved.

    So a year later, when this clunky noise appeared, the technician's diagnosis was that the steering tie rod and drag link were gone and I needed a new set. I turned to my Service Advisor and said "you guys replaced those very parts with a beefier aftermarket set just last year. How is it that they need replacing again?" The tech overheard me and sneaked away before we could corner him.

    I asked a friend to get under my Jeep as I turned the steering: turned out to be a clamp that was rubbing against the stabilizer. He loosened it; readjusted it and the clunk was gone.

    My "trusted" dealer was ready to charge me another $1,200 for what was a simple 2 minute fix.

    This taught me a lesson to never take at face value what a dealer tells me. It is sad to say. But the fact is that even if you know the Service Advisor, or the Service Manager, he will not always be there when you are, and anyone else, willingly or unwillingly can make the wrong call, or worse, make up a story that ends up costing you thousands of dollars.

    So when this CDJR dealer near my new home came to me with this bent axle story I was surprised at first. Then when he insisted I pay $900 to have a skid plate replaced I became skeptical. Then when I drove the vehicle and found the rattle gone, I became suspicious.
     
    #820 aldo90731, Dec 1, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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