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Let's speak about the quality in our products and more...

Discussion in 'Rumors and Speculation' started by Mr.Source, Oct 17, 2017.

  1. UN4GTBL

    Level 2 Supporter

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    "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"

    I hear you @aldo90731 loud and clear.
     
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  2. iNeon

    iNeon Well-Known Member

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    My dealer only extorted me for $2xx.xx when the engine management took a dump and went into DO NOT DRIVE THIS CAR OR U WILL DIE IMMEDIATELY limp mode after I’d had a piggy-back engine ECU ‘tune’ installed trouble free for over a year. I have an OBD device, but this time it smelled and ran badly— I needed the experts. It was also only 18 months old.

    They did not write any of the (warranty) trim or engine noise (there is a grind/whine on start-up that has only gotten worse) complaints into the repair order- only what they could cash-bill me for.

    I’m near 40. It isn’t a performance modification— it is one of necessity borne by FCA’s use of unfathomably bad engine tuning to game the government for higher ownership rights in Chrysler.

    It’s too bad that FCA are using certain traits as branding elements— ruggedness for Jeep, Sportiness for Dodge— to sell us on a reality that only adds weight to their pockets when the vehicles are used as marketed.

    When I say this, I mean that my Aero Dart -has- to be wrung-out thoroughly to even keep ahead of traffic behind me. Some people would happily oblige, but honestly it is wearing the car prematurely and I do understand that is of no benefit to me, it only benefits the people selling me transportation.
     
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  3. aldo90731

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    Sorry to hear.

    Not that it helps you one bit with your Dodge Dart, but that's how you would normally drive a Fiat.

    Those, too, were the days when FCA was ready to dump Challenger for some Euro-inspired "Barracuda", remember?
     
    #823 aldo90731, Dec 2, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  4. iNeon

    iNeon Well-Known Member

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    It’s exhausting to drive.

    I’m praying that I win my bank’s yearly ‘pay off your car for Christmas’ promotion lol
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Socially Unacceptable
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    Expecting an Aero Dart to be a performance machine is not a fault of FCA's, that is someone not having realistic expectations. I find it unfathomable that someone would expect the economy model of the car to be sporty. That would be like expecting the entry level Challenger to lift the front wheels and run a quarter in the nines.

    I am guessing that you don't have another option for a dealer or that they're all equally bad. That is unfortunate, and appears to be the case all too often.
     
  6. iNeon

    iNeon Well-Known Member

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    -edit-
    [Moderator removed several unnecessary insults]

    I said: Dodge sells itself as a Performance brand. They sold me an economy special that is neither economical when it’s tiny engine has to live under boost 80% of the time— and which needed to be reprogrammed to perform adequately under those conditions.

    The company then used that totally legal and non-internal modification to drain my wallet.

    Again: Both Dodge and Jeep are enthusiast brands sold to customers with the idea of personal modification and expression being paramount.

    You’ve seen two stories where FCA used those useage scenarios to drain the wallets of the buyers that used them as such.
     
    #826 iNeon, Dec 2, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 2, 2017
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  7. Beentherebefore

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    The resale value on Hondas is eye-opening. Before we bought our first one, a co-worker of mine (who incidentally liked Mopars and drove a Jeep to work most days) put an add in the paper to sell his wife's Accord with over 110,000 miles on it. He got 5 calls the first night and the first guy told him he was bringing cash, would be there in half an hour, and would buy it on the spot for asking price after inspecting it for any body damage. He only drove it around the block before paying up. That was the first time I went HMmmmmm about Hondas.
     
  8. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    If one paid attention to how the car was marketed originally, that was the image projected. But that’s not really the poster’s point.
     
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  9. aldo90731

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    Yes, my friend sold his 9 year old 2005 Acura TL with 180,000 miles in one day and got $9,000 for it. My neighbor sold her 12 year old 2004 Acura TL with 190,000 miles also in one day for $6,000. A low miles Honda S2000 is worth more now than it did new.

    So is the resale value of Wranglers. I bought my first JK from Carmax: a 2008 Sahara 2-door soft top with 8,000 miles for $20,000. I drove it for a few months until I discovered I wanted a hard top, lockers, traction tires etc, Instead of spending an additional $5,000 in modifications, sold it back to Carmax 4.5 months later for $19,000. Then bought a 2009 JKU Rubicon hardtop with 10,000 miles for $28,000; sold it two years later for $26,000.

    Eighteen months ago paid $34,000 for my current 2015 JKU Sahara with 7,500 miles. According to KBB, it is still worth $32,000. KBB has been right on the mark with my Wranglers.

    Those 12 year old LJs are still worth $20,000. If you want to spend less than $15,000 on a Wrangler, chances are you will need to look at a 15 year old TJ.

    You get hooked on this type of resale; it becomes impossible to buy anything else that depreciates faster.
     
    #829 aldo90731, Dec 2, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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  10. iNeon

    iNeon Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for pointing toward that particular marketing message. I'd like to follow it up with: Dart (irregardless of model designation) was also marketed as the premium, larger, compact alternative.

    My expectations were planted by words directly from the company that sold me my last two daily-drivers. I expected a comfortable, semi-sporting and economical car built of a higher quality and with nicer materials than my previous (2008 PT Cruiser, 1998 neon Sport Coupe) cars. Again: A reality not supported by the product I was sold.

    I paid extra for a car with those qualities. My life changed, and I was finally in a place to buy a car because I wanted one-- not because I needed one. I find myself in that position once again, and do want to discuss that I am exploring external-to-Chrysler alternatives by those failures of FCA U.S. L.L.C..

    If Chrysler can not retain a 37 year-old, three-time Belvedere/Toluca car customer because their product does not meet needs or expectations-- where else are they to source customers and revenues?

    Isn't that what we're talking about?
     
  11. Erik Latranyi

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    There are many here who would tell you "good riddance" because they cannot see the path that FCA has put the brands onto. They cannot see the drop in volumes and the struggle to maintain those volumes. The margins will erode as well because without loyal, repeat customers you cannot sustain high margins with low quality vehicles. But those same people who dismiss you do not believe that FCA quality and customer service are in the toilet.
     
  12. aldo90731

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    Yes. And this is a problem in general with selling on performance without the quality to back it up.

    The perception of a quality is the number one driver of purchase intention and, by extension, of actual sales, of resale value and of customer retention —and, by extension, of profits.

    Without quality, nothing else matters, regardless if it is a Fiat, a Dodge, a Mazda, an Audi, a Honda or a Toyota.
     
    #832 aldo90731, Dec 2, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  13. CudaPete

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    Aldo, please don't take this the wrong way, but perhaps the axle was not re-assembled correctly when the modifications were done? This could have precipitated the failure.
     
  14. aldo90731

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    Hmmm...good point.

    When I had to replace front-end components on my 2013 Rubicon due to premature wear, the signs were everywhere: in the braking, in the turning, on the tires, in the loud rattling over bumps.

    I get absolutely no indication from driving this Jeep that there’s anything wrong with it, though. Besides said rattle that is now gone, there’s no suspicious whine or grind, nothing in the tire wear, nothing in the acceleration, the ride or the handling.

    I am going to double check for myself though. Fingers crossed.

    UPDATE:

    I just lifted both rear wheels. I could not detect any play on either side.

    When the dealer calls next week to tell me the parts are in, I am going to tell them I have a rear TrueTrac LSD and 4.10 gears; and ask what are they going to do about it. And take it from there...
     
    #834 aldo90731, Dec 2, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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  15. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    .

    Very well said, iNeon.

    After some thought, I would personally come closer to being an owner of a standard sized Doblo than pretty much anything else FCA offers. And that being because I want some space in a people hauler. I'm peculiar that way. Instead, we on these shores have the PMC, which is okay. Still a bit unsure of that one, since it is targeted toward commercial use.

    From those available in the States, a Ford Transit Connect Wagon shorty is closer. But it's one "from THEM".

    Family, friends and co-workers have made a very strong case without anyone specifically defending the vehicles they've leased or purchased. Certain things come up in conversation where they convey details which are important to me about ownership experiences involving those brands and models.

    Some of those Others are simply too difficult to ignore as a candidate ride.

    .
     
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  16. Christopher

    Christopher Socially Unacceptable
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    I am not going to disagree with the disconnect between the way it was marketed and what it delivered.
     
  17. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Seems to me, there are a few things going on.

    1) You did not take an adequate test drive. I know when to blame the dealer and when to blame myself. I also have an Aero, and I regret getting it, but I know whose fault the purchase was. I also regret the resale value dropping in half after I bought it _used_!

    2) Yes, the engine tuning could be better, but what is your actual mileage? I am getting decent mileage from it. Not the EPA estimates, any more, but close enough, and I admit I have fun with it. Again, the “wringing out” is something you’d discover on a test drive.

    3) Very few companies stick to their marketing 100%. VW markets as fun and sporty but they have made some real porkers that handled like pigs, accelerated like bicycles with their brakes stuck on, and got all the gas mileage of a Freightliner. Apple has sold some low-quality, hard-to-use stuff in their time. Honda’s made crappy cars (del Sol! and Odyssey). I have a pair of low-sound-quality, uncomfortable Sennheiser earbuds and a poorly engineered Philips light. It happens...
     
  18. iNeon

    iNeon Well-Known Member

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    Initial quality on the dart was high. It -is- more car than a 2008 PT Cruiser.

    I was loyal and had faith in my Chrysler.

    They took advantage of that faith and delivered a pig that fell apart.

    And I’m going to tell everyone that will listen.
     
  19. aldo90731

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    FWIW, I was impressed with my brother's 2001 PT Cruiser. That thing was built like a tank. Everywhere you touched felt nice, and there were nice design elements everywhere.

    It never gave him any issues over the six years he owned it. It just didn't turn much, and sucked gas like a pig.
     
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  20. CudaPete

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    I had an 01 PT Cruiser for 15 years. Initial quality was excellent but it did develop some problems as it aged. Fuel economy was good at 26 mpg average. The lady I sold it to just drove it from NJ to SoCal this past summer. It made it!
     
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