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Looking for a couple of modules/relays

Discussion in 'Cars and parts wanted' started by 85lebaront2, Jun 19, 2020.

  1. 85lebaront2

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    I am trying to find two items for a 1990 J body Lebaron convertible.

    One is called a timer relay and is part of the large relay center on the left side cowl. It will be on the end of the second row, the area actually protrudes a bit where it plugs in. Base configuration is that of a standard Bosch relay.

    The other is called a dimmer module and is located next to the fuse box, it will have a red 6 pin connector.

    I can't seem to find them shown in the parts list nor find much in the FSM on either item.

    Thanks.
     
  2. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator
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    Is the timer relay to turn off the courtesy lamps after about 20 minutes?
    Is the dimmer module for the electronic instrument panel dimming?
     
  3. 85lebaront2

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    Yes sir, you are exactly correct as near as I can determine. If the timer module works like the older systems, it is more like 90 seconds.
     
  4. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator
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    I remember my '96 Neon had a small timer circuit board inside a standard relay, in case someone left a door open so it wouldn't deplete the battery. It would time out after about 20 minutes.
    Doesn't your LeBaron have the dim-to-off (theater) courtesy lighting inside the BCM?

    I saw an illuminated entry relay (Mopar # 4318800) for Chrysler. Is this what you are looking for?
    1984 1991 Illuminated Entry Relay 4318800 NOS Chrysler New Yorker | eBay (at https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-1991-Illuminated-Entry-Relay-4318800-NOS-Chrysler-New-Yorker/303131830728?hash=item469410a9c8:g:yo0AAOSw7tFcu3rW )

    The other timer I saw was for the concealed headlamp delay (Mopar # 4503024), but that isn't for the electronic cluster.

    The electronic cluster does use a different headlamp switch (for different dimming characteristics?) than a standard gauge cluster.
    If you have the old one, does it have a part number on it?
     
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  5. 85lebaront2

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    IC, first, the relay you found looks like the one the 1985 and 1986 Lebaron convertibles came with. I am using a 1989 J body dash in the 1986 convertible, but recently obtained an almost complete wiring harness set from a 1990 Lebaron convertible. The "timer relay" is probably about the same internally, but plugs into a standard Bosch relay socket in the relay center (big block of up to 17 relays). It may have "theater" lighting in the BCM, but it is the base 1990 BCM for use with analog gauges. I found that the round socket parts of the rectangular black and red instrument cluster plugs will fit in the old round 11 pin plugs used on the 1989 analog cluster.

    On the dimming, I am aware of the differences, some had it in the BCM, some apparently in the dimming module as it takes the resistance from the headlight switch to adjust brightness. I have to use the 1989 headlight switch as the 1990 was a pod mounted one. I have added three small "reversing" relays to convert the 12V output of the headlight switch and 1989 column mounted headlight dimmer switch to a ground signal to the appropriate relays (Park Lamps, Low Headlamp and High Headlamp). The basic panel dimming for the orange wires is in the headlamp switch. I may be able to do a workaround on those and deal with the electronic dimming (the automatic dim when the headlights are on) may work once I get everything connected.
     
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  6. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator
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    The catalog I was using was the 1990 passenger car one:
    http://oskin.ru/pub/chrysler-dodge/manuals/Chrysler_Service_Parts_Catalog/CD2/82-96PassCar/90p.PDF
    I also looked ahead to 1992 93.
    J-body relays are in figure 8-100. Modules are shown in 8-300. Instrument cluster is 8A-1700.

    In the 1986 catalog was a 4186387 door lock illumination relay, that looks a lot like the 4318800:
    attachment.php

    There is also the H-body 4221671 illuminated entry relay:
    NOS Genuine Mopar Entry Lights Relay 4221671. for 85-89 Dodge Lancer. for sale online | eBay (at https://www.ebay.com/p/1772769195 )

    The 1995+ Neon 'Smart dome lamp relay' is the conventional Bosch-style. I don't think it had the momentary delay when closing the door, but I remember it turning off the dome lamp if it felt that a door was left open too long. It is 5269787:
    OEM Mopar Dome Light Timer Relay TRW 5269787 for sale online | eBay (at https://www.ebay.com/p/839232952 )
     
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  7. 85lebaront2

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    I have those, downloaded them from TurboDodge.com when the links were shared there. Nothing seems to list it, I know I sent an hour one time several years ago trying to find a part, had the old one in my hand, poor parts guy was going crazy. I think I still have the 1986 one for the illuminated entry system and several of the 3 pin light delay ones. Maybe I will just have to see if I can make one of them work.

    Sometimes you need a mind reader to figure out where something is hidden in a parts list, Mercedes had a snubber mount for the front of the Diesel engine models, it was listed in the front suspension section.

    Thanks for trying!
     
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  8. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator
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    Any Mopar # on the old parts?
     
  9. 85lebaront2

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    I will have to get the box of miscellaneous relays and look.
     
  10. 85lebaront2

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    No readable numbers, all the large ones are apparently underhood (starter, AC compressor and fan) I do have 3 of the small delay relays (3 pin) for the ignition lock light on the column, no numbers, just made in Haiti with US parts. The one on eBay you linked is what the 1989 and probably 1985 and 86 had, 5 pins with a timer built in. It mounted over the glove box.
     
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  11. 85lebaront2

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    Ok, I found a PN for the dimmer module by looking at the 1991 parts list, 1990 must have been a year with a lot of running changes. The PN 4373858 and shows on the 1991 list as up to 2-20-91 then changes to 4672012. Still haven't found the "timer relay".
     
  12. 85lebaront2

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    IC, I did find the number for the older time delay relay (also 5 pins but a big rectangular can like the older starter and fan relays) it is 4339780, still no luck on the newer one.
     
  13. 85lebaront2

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    I went ahead and bought the smart dome light relay, The info on the Neon calls it a "time out relay". The only problem now is finding a wiring diagram for it, AllData doesn't show it except in the fuse box layout which shows 3 of the pins connected to M2 (yellow courtesy lights ground), one of those is normally one side of the relay coil, the corresponding pin is connected to M1 (pink courtesy light power). The other two pins M2 is connected to are the normal relay NC and NO locations, with the common connected to M23 a yellow/black wire.

    I found the wiring diagram, 1997 Neon, so if nothing else I can rewire the relay pins in the block.
     
    #13 85lebaront2, Aug 7, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
  14. 85lebaront2

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    Update on this. I bought the Neon "Time out" relay which appears to function as a safety item by turning off the dome light after 20-25 mins to keep it from running down the battery.

    I went through the 1990 wiring diagrams for the courtesy lights and after looking at the "timer relay" function, it seems to just illuminate the lights in the switch pods (headlight and wiper) when activated. The 1990 BCM shows a white wire, circuit M22 that is referred to as "illuminated entry ground" and when the BCM is connected to a DC source to pin 16 on the black plug and ground to pin 13 on the black plug, pin 7, circuit M22 has 5 volts DC on it. This tells me it is a sensing signal/ Grounding this activates one of the relays grounding M02, the courtesy light ground circuit at pin 25 on th black connector. It stays grounded for around 90 seconds then opens again. If DC power is applied to pins 12 & 22 (22 may not be needed for this as it is the wiper motor power feed) the M02 ground vanishes as the relay clicks open.

    This is the function I was looking for as the illuminated entry system is a nice feature, there are halo lights on the door lock cylinders so lifting either handle illuminates them and the interior. FWIW, the 1990 wiring diagrams, both the original and the supplement show the illuminated entry switch and light as a series circuit, M22 to light, to switch and to ground through the switch ???? With only 5 volts it isn't going to be very bright and would go off as soon as the handle was released.
     
  15. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    I need to go through my box of 2.2-2.5 gear and see if I have electrical stuff.
     
  16. marty mopar

    marty mopar Well-Known Member

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    relays

    A 05227300 Starter, w/Diode
    B 04221658 Horn
    C 02889565 Time Delay & Headlamp
    D 04439013 A/C Clutch Cutout
    F 04443904 Radiator Fan
    G 04318800 Illum. Door Lock
    H 04221570 Ampliļ€er & Antenna
    I 04221691 Top Control
    J 04373117 Heated Rear Window
    M 04504204 Fuel Pump, (Shutdown) w/A.C.
    04504205 Fuel Pump, w/o A.C. Stamped# 5233634
    O 04375253 Low Fuel
    05234259 E.A.T.X., w/Brkt.
    04373690 Daylight Running Lights
    05252672 Fog Lamp & Park Lamp
    04373531 Concealed Headlamp

    modules

    J-BODY
    04503024 Time Delay, Concealed H/Lamp
    04503026 w/o Time Delay, Concealed H/Lamp
    C Headphone, (See Interior Trim Section)
    E 04443999 Airbag Diagnostic
    G Message Center, (See Group 8A)
    L 04503062 Engine Node (E.V.I.C.)
    M Body Controller, (Base) Stamped 4503112, (Return Center) (Use Spacer
    & Stud 5266113)
    Body Controller, (Premium) Stamped 4503020 (Return Center) (Use
    Spacer & Stud 5266113)
    R 05211741 Fuse Block, w/Dots
    04304499 w/Lettering
    T 04443135 Power & Vacuum, A.T.C.
    04503193 H/Lp. Outage
    04437154 Security Alarm
    04374792 Varible Dampning-Load Level
    04557120 EATX

    all above from the 90 part book
     
  17. 85lebaront2

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    Marty, I have an order for what I need in to you. The timer relay only controls the pod switch lights and really doesn't do me any good.
     

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