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Maserati Folgore - 800 Volt BEV architecture

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by T_690, Sep 17, 2020.

  1. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    Maserati calls its electric drivetrain Folgore, which is Italian for "lightning." It consists of a three-motor layout. One powers the front axle. The two at the rear have individual management of power and torque for each wheel to achieve active torque vectoring functionality.

    The system runs on an 800-volt system that uses a new generation of inverters with silicon-carbide (SiC) components. This is a similar solution as the hybrid and electric tech used in Formula 1 and Formula E.

    High-frequency switches let the SiC inverters improve the vehicle's performance and range. The 800-volt electric system is also capable of handling high power recharges up to 300 kW.

    https://www.gminsidenews.com/forums...serati-planning-launch-through-2024-a-298541/
     
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  2. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    The question is. When will this trickle down to other brands. All with cars on Giorgio may be candidates.
     
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  3. LordHobbit

    LordHobbit Active Member

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    This will cause some real issues in collisions and repairs. High voltage systems are no joking matter. Emergency responders will be very reticent to extract anyone from an electric vehicle with 800V system.

    I'm sure there will be some form of power cutoff something to aid in such events.
     
  4. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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  5. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    First responders are being trained in this stuff already, at least in large parts of the USA. We have this electric car company that makes really unreliable cars that tend to run into other cars all the time, run by a racist dingbat who says that real heroes are actually child molesters. So they have to be ready regardless.
     
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  6. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for kick-starting my memory. I had actually forgotten all the above items you mention about the "certain someone" these things apply to.

    All of a sudden...a sleazy con-man and future securities fraud convict like Trevor Milton doesn't seem so horrible by comparison after all.:p:D

    P.S. You forgot to mention that some of these cars you describe have this nasty little habit of spontaneously catching fire.:eek:
     
  7. gforce2002

    gforce2002 Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, “really unreliable cars that sometimes catch fire” could easily apply to FCA.
     
  8. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    “More Volts” isn't a measure of how advanced a system is. Once you can accept 700 V DC, you’re already at the limit of the CCS2 charging system. There are lots of practical safety reasons why we won’t get much above the CCS2 limits of up to 500 Amps or up to 1000 V to get to up to 350 kW.

    Also, this car is no faster at charging than existing high-current models, like the Porsche Taycan, although they leave that insight as an exercise for the reader... Here’s how it works:

    300 miles range is about 66 kWh based on their EPA figures (battery has a capacity of 113 kWh - another article states the figure), so the charger is using around 230~250 kW during fast-charge. That 66kWh in 20 minutes = 198 kWh in 1 hour (theoretical). The two hours cancel out, giving average power of 198 kW. Round up a bit for losses, and we’re probably at charging system with 230 or 250 kW peak power handling.

    The Porsche Taycan charges at 250 kW peak.

    Regarding 800 versus 900 Volts, the difference isn’t much to get excited about. Would a car with a 3.2 liter engine automatically be worse than a 3.6 liter one? Yes, there are advantages for using higher voltages: high current requires heavier conductors, and greater cooling. Against that, higher voltages inside the vehicle make it far more dangerous in the event of an accident. Here, the 12.5% difference isn’t much to get excited about, compared to the huge leap from 400 Volt to 800 Volt architectures. Mechanical losses and excess weight could swallow all that up again.

    "In addition, the Lucid Air can automatically boost the charging voltage when needed to charge at the fastest available rate at any location. "
    Every EV does this – every EV has to. The batteries need a fixed, DC, voltage to charge, but the charging station supplies DC or AC at various voltages.
     
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  9. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    First responders have already been trained in this for several years. Existing systems have used 600V.
    They are more at risk from a motorist plowing into them while they are doing their job.
     
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  10. Tony K

    Tony K Active Member

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    Like the one that killed my pastor's brother and an employee in Indy in early Nov, 2016. I was unaware at the time that it was his brother, but he visited me a month later before my appendectomy, and seemed less than his usual self. Granted, I probably wouldn't have noticed under the circumstances. Lawsuit: Tesla 'defects' led to crash that killed Indianapolis man (at https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/indianapolis/2019/06/25/lawsuit-tesla-defects-led-crash-killed-indianapolis-man/1561041001/ )
     
  11. turbonetic

    turbonetic Active Member

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    Sorry but what does that have to do with race?
     
  12. Tony K

    Tony K Active Member

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    Not race...RACISM. Get it straight.
     
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  13. voiceofstl

    voiceofstl Well-Known Member

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    does the "guy" also build spaceships?
     
  14. Chrysler UK

    Chrysler UK Active Member

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    Perhaps the fact that Musk grew up in Apartheid South Africa might explain a lot about his viewpoints.
     
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  15. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    National stereotypes aren’t useful: being South African doesn’t make you a racist, even if it was a place where it was okay to be a racist for a long time. The white South Africans I know are of Musk’s generation and most definitely not racists.

    Back on topic:

    Folgore is one of two EV architectures developed by FCA. The other is the 400 Volt system that has debuted on the FIAT 500e. This two-system approach is a smart move, as for the majority of mainstream BEV applications, 800 V is wasted expense. The 500e supports up to 85 kW fast-charging, but in a larger vehicle this should be possible to increase further if needed (as there’s greater opportunity for cooling)

    The drive train in 500e is both power efficient (13.1 kWh/100 km versus VW ID.3 from 14.0 upwards, Tesla 3 from 13.2 upwards; all figures WLTP), and space efficient (compare the size of the 500e with the larger Honda-e and Mini-e, both of which have smaller batteries).

    For a company that allegedly didn’t care about EVs, that’s pretty good going.
     
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  16. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the first highlighted point...Last night, I was very tempted to post a very similar comment...but in the end...decided to 'bite my tongue'...or in this case...'bite my keyboard'. In any event...Thank You for saying it, since it needed to be said.

    On the second point...Learning this about what FCA has in EV tech leaves me feeling much less pessimistic about the ability of FCA / PSA / STELL/\NTIS to catch up and effectively compete in that space. Perhaps Tesla won't end up mercilessly steam-rolling everybody else to the extent I had feared.
     
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  17. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    I can’t see them doing so. They’ve had the advantage of being the only large EV for a long time, but now that other car makers are producing EVs, it’s showing up Tesla’s deficiencies - particularly in build quality and cost-cutting.

    Take away country-of-origin concerns, and Geely’s Polestar Two is a just a better car all around than a Model 3 - and surprisingly it’s not the Chinese car that’s constantly phoning home about your use of it. And that’s just the first of a wave of cars, many from more prestigious brands, that are coming after Tesla. And they don’t jury-rig critical components with whatever you can drive out to the nearest hardware store for ( https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-y-owners-have-found-home-depot-poopies-used-to-1844999285 ).

    My opinion (value $0.02) is that Tesla made a fatal mistake with the Model 3. For me, it should have stayed in the premium market, invested in coachbuilding (Pininfarina was for sale...) and made a push upwards to take the role that in BEVs that Mercedes had in cars up to the 1980s: the first, the best.
     
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  18. gforce2002

    gforce2002 Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree that there are any number of countries which have no stones to throw about systemic racism.

    I have to say that every time I read someone say something about Tesla's panel gaps and build quality, I look no further than my Compass's numerous rattling interior panels, misaligned doors, and light fixtures. The right tail light assembly in particular is a big ouch. What I really don't understand is how FCA (and other established companies are often no better), with so many years of car building experience, still can't get stuff like that right. Or even close, in some cases. My dealer was able to finally get my interior A pillar moldings to stop rattling, but the bottoms of them still look like they're just flapping in the breeze. I get the continual feeling that FCA just doesn't give a crap.
     
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  19. page2171

    page2171 Well-Known Member

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    Well, maybe you'll get better service once Jeep complete its transition to luxury brand. Or, maybe you'll get the same service and get to pay more for it.
     
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