Discussion in 'Fiat, Alfa, Maserati' started by T_690, May 1, 2019.
5 new vehicles between 4 brands over 4 years is not much.
Lol, very true... Kia has released the same amount of new vehicles in last 4 years by itself.... What's even more impressive,... None of them existed previously...
Good news. But I’d take the new product every six months with a pinch of salt because something tells me that the all electric version of the same vehicle is likely to be listed and a separate model.
Not sure how many times I have explained this. The idea the low volumes cost anywhere close to same amount to implement as a high volume brand implementation smacks so much of PURE IGNORANCE that I not going through it again. Maserati and Alfa total brand implementation don't approach a single model launch at Fiat, Dodge, Chrysler, and Dodge. North America has been flush in Capital for implementation to a staggering amount. This jealous sibling thing is getting old. Not to mention the downstream transfers of technology as the move from low volume high margin to high volume and volume margin. If you don't care about the High Margin low volume models move along.
10 years on...and there are still these possessive territorial "US" against "THEM" arguments over resource allocation and product development / implementation.
10 years on...and some out there still have not accepted that there IS no separate Chrysler Co. or Fiat SPA. It's ONE company.
How long is this collective grudge against "THEM" going to go on, anyway?
Wouldn’t it be an irony if the Them versus Us was more prevalent on this board than within the company?
It is getting old. But, I don't see it going away until FCA can manage to keep brands up to date without neglecting other brands.
Its likely way more prevalent here.
There's an update for the Ghibli, one for the Quattroporte, one for the Levante, ... and I agree regarding the electrics.
Small electric coupe
People on the outside looking in often fixate on details that matter specifically to them and may inflate them to artificial levels of importance. They're not privy to the internal company details (nor should they be) and it often shows in their comments and arguments because they focus on details that may be in fact irrelevant to those "in the know".
As a manager, I was often dumbfounded by what my direct reports would fixate on, and their perceived rationales for why things occurred...which more often than not ended up being completely unrelated to reality.
Dont take it so personal!
Apparently I am a really bad teacher, people don't want to understand, or they just like to whine. Can I take the first personal?
Stinger and Telluride are really the only new segments. Cadenza, K900 have exisited in previous generations, just not sold in the USA.
Huh? Let's see here Ram 1500, Ram 2500/3500, Chrysler Pacifica, Chrysler 200, Jeep Wangler, Jeep Gladiator, Jeep Compass, Fiat Spider, Alfa 4C, Alfa Stelvio, Alfa Giulia, and the Maserati Levante. I count 12 in 4 years. (10 years puts this at 14 more from what I have been able to count bringing the total to 26) This was from a company that was in debt until just last year.
Now by comparison what did Daimler Chrysler do? Dodge Ram 1500, Dodge Ram 2500/3500, Dodge Charger, Dodge Challenger, Dodge Journey, Dodge Durango, Dodge Caliber, Dodge Magnum, Dodge Avenger, Chrysler Aspen, Chrysler Crossfire, Chrysler Pacifica, Chrysler Town & Country, Chrysler 300, Jeep Commander, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Jeep Wangler, Jeep Compass, Jeep Patriot, Jeep Liberty and 18 Mercedes Benz models (and I don't even know if they were all available in the US like all the ones from FCA are) making a total of 38. This was 10 years and merging with a company that had about 12 Billion in cash.
So other than the huge differences should we see who CUT what from each? (I am not going to list them but Daimler Cut way more the FCA though I shouldn't have to remind anyone here) Also, ever look at pictures of inside those verse now?
Not to mention many that listed are badge engineered or Top Hat Engineered add Wrangler Ulimited, Renegade, 500X, 500L, Viper are plus .... minus Durango/Aspen, Crossfire was a old restyled Mercedes, Nitro/Liberty, Caravan/T&C, Magnum/300 (arguably Charger), Compass/Patriot/Caliber, Avenger/200... Could argue that Commander was just a top hat, and I haven't studied the Benz to determine how many were top hats or just submodels……..
lets put it this way a lot of people like badge engineering because gave service to there favorite brands, from a time when DC was push separate show rooms and stand alone did exist. We could argue that all day but that is water under the bridge.
Let's narrow it down to the US brands and vehicles that can still be purchased:
(1)Ram 1500, (2) Ram 2500/3500, (3) Chrysler Pacifica, Chrysler 200, (4) Jeep Wangler, (5) Jeep Gladiator, (6) Jeep Compass, Fiat Spider, Alfa 4C, Alfa Stelvio, Alfa Giulia, and the Maserati Levante.
So 6 vehicles amount 4 brands in four years. That's just over 1/3 of a new model per brand per year on average. Now take your claimed 14 models over 10 years, limit it to the American brands and only vehicles still in production. How many of the 14 fit that list?
That Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouth were “out-Toyotaed” and “out-Hondaed” in the sedan segment did not happen on FCA’s watch but long before. While you could argue that Chrysler created the SUV market a long time ago with the Jeep GC it is out of their hands to manipulate consumer decisions to influence size of market segments. SUVs are were it is right now and they sell best under the Jeep brand. Sure, I would love for Chrysler to come up with another market segment buster like the minivan but that is easier said than done.
But more importantly, number of models don’t define success. Market share, unit sales and profits do. And isn’t FCA doing a lot better there than DaimlerChrysler was the last two years of its existence? Of course, I don’t know the future and how FCA will be doing four years from now. But I do know that they always seem to try to keep a few cards close to their sleeves.
There I fixed it
Comparing Chrysler between the darkest days since the Great Recession and one of the longest economic recoveries is apples and oranges. The reality is we still haven’t yet seen FCA perform in anything but the best of economic conditions.
Good economic times lift all boats; downturns are what make or break automakers. Yes, downturns impact all automakers; what makes all the difference is the resilience in the demand for each automaker’s products during changes in the economy. That demand resilience comes mostly from customer retention.
As far as I know, customer retention remains a key weakness at FCA. That in itself gives us an early sign of what is likely to happen the day the economy slips.
If it’s any indication, parts of Europe and Asia have been dealing with an economic slowdown and FCA hasn’t been doing that great there.
This discussion started ten years ago and yet here we still are...
REPORT: Senator John McCain doesn't believe Chrysler will make it (at https://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/16/report-senator-john-mccain-doesnt-believe-chrysler-will-make-i/ )
Correct, it is about sustainability. I can't predict the next ten years but neither do I take the past ten years for granted. It allowed me to still get parts and service for my Magnum and Journey and to enjoy them as well as a few other wonderful vehicles that have come out since then from FCA...