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Maybe just as well Renault deal didn't work out

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by Beentherebefore, Dec 27, 2019.

  1. Beentherebefore

    Level III Supporter

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    Yesterday's WSJ had a front page article about the Renault-Nissan alliance "faltering" since Carlos Ghosn was forced to leave. Among other things, the article states that Nissan and Renault have "bickered" constantly for two decades, "each complaining the other slowed the development process with it's demands". Also that engineers "have worked to avoid cooperating on vehicle design". As far as their vehicle sales are going, the article states that the two companies have sold more than half a million fewer vehicles than they did in the same period the previous year and that both lost money on selling vehicles in the first half of this year.
     
  2. Tony K

    Tony K Active Member

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    Amen! PSA + FCA tie-up looks better and better each day compared to that train-wreck. Gotta wonder what Elkann was thinking, or if this was all part of a bigger plan to shake up the industry. I don't think you can say Elkann & Co. didn't have a clue that there were issues in that "Alliance" to contend with going in. Now seeing how close the Agnelli and Peugeot families are, you gotta wonder if FCA was in talks with Renault in order to cause a stir in the alliance that could potentially upset it, sort of the straw the breaks the camel's back.
     
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  3. cygnus

    cygnus Well-Known Member

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    I'm not exactly sure Chrysler/Dodge will be able to avoid a similar outcome. High margin Jeep/Ram products will be principally designed in Auburn Hills (other than Gorgio Global with the next generation five and seven passenger Grand Cherokee, all DS/DT/Wagoneer/Grand/Wagoneer/1500/2500 is all CTC).

    WL74 and WL75 is the first big test. Can they take something Giorgio Global from another group and integrate it to make a new compelling offering for a high profit product? We'll see.

    Whether that success carries over to the Chrysler/Dodge platforms - we'll see.

    Oh, and it's already been mentioned here that the death of small wide has been exaggerated, and that the next generation Cherokee will be small wide. But the problem is that Peugeot isn't small wide, so where are the cost savings going to come from?

    Long term, I only see room for one platform between B/C/low D between the US/EU/China. Is it small wide, or Peugeot's platform? What are the timing considerations of this?

    These are the current open questions.
     
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  4. Tony K

    Tony K Active Member

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    Like Mike Manley said, common componentry, particularly the hidden stuff, like mechanical, any non-interface electronics, and common FUTURE platforms. Once you get to common platforms, everything can be common to the extent it doesn't have an effect on brand ID or cost. Remember, Giorgio was always supposed to be a common platform (like LX is when you factor in LC, which was the first Challenger), but until the new JGC comes out, it doesn't seem like it.
     
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  5. cygnus

    cygnus Well-Known Member

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    With whatever they have in mind, I hope it involves bringing additional product to Belvidere to get it back to prior staffing levels.
     
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  6. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Even train wrecks are appealing if the price is right. The big problem supposedly was the French government wanting a part in maintaining the train wreck as it is.
     
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  7. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    The French government gets a lot of blame for rumors and vapor. It didn't stand in the way of the Peugeot deal. I think a lot of people are making a lot of assumptions... and nobody at FCA, Renault, or Nissan wants to take blame when they can point fingers.
     
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  8. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    As someone (maybe you?) noted, Giorgio-the-platform-and-architecture supposedly was mutually engineered, not created entirely in Italy. That said, CUSW certainly landed with a thud; Dart disaster, 200 flop, Cherokee delayed/flawed launch. ProMaster worked out but with numerous quality glitches (albeit no more than Daimler, Ford, or Nissan vans) in the first gen. The first SUSW (or S4x4 or whatever it is) endured a two year delay as they redesigned it to meet Jeep needs, and the Renegade was a real success in the EU but a flop in the US. Compass seems to have come out OK.

    Maybe the problem was not with adapting someone else’s design, but with the design being adapted... and maybe it was someone in the head office constantly changing their mind about what they wanted, and inflicting their sleep deprivation and mania and desire for constant stimulation on everyone around them.
     
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  9. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

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    Gee...I wonder who you could possibly be referring to?:rolleyes:;)
     
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  10. hmk123

    Level III Supporter

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    I often wonder why the Dart didn’t do better. Maybe not the right configuration available for most people? We loved our loaded Limited. And I had a couple rental cars during that time. Same size of cars and I can’t say what Ford and Huyndai offered for example impressed me more.... Maybe it didn’t offer enough to those who stuck with familiar brands...
     
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  11. DC-93

    DC-93 Well-Known Member

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    Dart failure?
    Blame Product Planning, yet again, for that mess.
    Car was too large, for a compact. It was in between a compact and intermediate.
    They didn't know who to appeal to! Too close in size to a 200... !!!

    Also - too much crap on it! A Dart stripper would have sold a ton to entry level buyers at a cheaper price.
     
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  12. FreeLantz

    FreeLantz Well-Known Jeeper

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    Park a Dart next to a current Corolla... they're not that far apart... it just wasn't a very good car. 200 on the other hand was too small. It would have been a decent mid-sized competitor ten years earlier.
     
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  13. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    The power and mpg ratings of the 1.4 turbo are still pretty competitive with just about anyone. The size was a problem, it brought weight, and that hurt performance all 'round.
     
  14. mopar22

    mopar22 Well-Known Member

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    I agree the dart overall was a miss in every way, you can't just point to one thing that made it fail. I will say that the mpg for the 2.4 for the dart (it's main engine by the end of it's life) was a huge failure (especially for the gt)
     
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  15. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Yup, the nine speed would have saved it (the automatic version anyway).
     
  16. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

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    Now that I think of it...you left out "cigarette and espresso fueled!":D
     
  17. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

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  18. CherokeeVision

    CherokeeVision Well-Known Member

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    Also didn't help sales advertising the Alfa Romeo roots of the Dart. That was completely lost on American buyers and if anything was a negative not a positive.
     
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  19. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    .

    No one has yet floated what I think is a tenable reason for thinking the partnering or merger with Renault might work where FCA could be a moderating counterpoint to the rancor. Something that might temper the two - irrespective whether the French or the Asian contingent might be the source of one problem or the other.

    Knowing Exor had been looking for Merger/Partner fodder for some years made it easy to accelerate the process because of the common need ( useful consolidation ). Such an arrangement might buy up to ten years more of things never boiling-over, per se, even though they might simmer to a fare-thee-well ... they might be able to pocket some gains with that third-party before irreversibly turning again toward each other's throats.

    But from this distance, it appears each might already have their fangs quickly sunk into each other's Carotids.

    .
     
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  20. Satellite Saint

    Satellite Saint Active Member

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    Ok, I have to speak up for the Dart. I own a 16 GT and love it. Oh, by the way it is my 2nd Dart. Yes the 2.4 is not the best on mpg but it’s decent. Saying it’s too big for a compact, well duh, that makes it more resourceful. I bought automatics and I NEVER do but the 6 speed felt so good. The Manuel was very sloppy. Maybe the 9 might have been better but after hearing all the bad reviews of them no thank you. I have never had a car that has handled as well as my Darts.
     
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