AF: Missing the boat without a midsized truck(Dakota 2) | Allpar Forums
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Missing the boat without a midsized truck(Dakota 2)

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by CDJSalesPro, Aug 3, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. CDJSalesPro

    CDJSalesPro Allpar Legacy

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    3,879
    Likes:
    4,398
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    I am really missing the Dakota. You don't know how often we have someone come into the dealership looking for a smaller RAM.
     
  2. TripleT

    TripleT Allpar Legacy

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    7,385
    Likes:
    10,193
    Cannibal with less margin ^^^^^^
     
  3. Charger Red

    Charger Red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,427
    Likes:
    335
    Below is one of at least 10 commonly expressed statements regarding Chrysler product availability:

    "I am really missing the fill-in the blank. You don't know how often we have someone come into the dealership looking for a fill-in the blank."
     
    Ian and MoparStu like this.
  4. Mario9

    Mario9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    257
    Likes:
    155
    Personally I consider the midsize trucks much more interesting than the big ones, because they are smaller, more efficient and often more load capacity.

    The issue I think is that all midsize trucks have world wide markets to support then.

    All competitors that offer products in this segment has global distribution networks and a global brand. The Ram is a brand without international reach. And these products are developed especially for Asia but also for Latin America, and their distribution in North America are possible by this global volume.
     
    jerseyjoe, BEEAH and Prabhjot like this.
  5. Prabhjot

    Prabhjot Active Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,361
    Likes:
    1,370
    Does (not) FCA plan on offering the soon-to-be launched Brazilian Fiat-branded midsize stylized C-pickup truck in the US, badged a Ram? If so: fully imported, presumably? Precisely for the economies-of-scale reason @Mario9 has justed posted about?
     
  6. ScottB

    ScottB Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,876
    Likes:
    2,294
    The Tacoma that Toyota sells here is produced specifically for this part of the world. The Hilux they offer elsewhere is for the rest of the globe. Why? I believe they think North America wants a slightly larger, more capable truck at the sacrifice of fuel economy. Probably true since the domestics started out with smaller, lighter tucks and have spent the last 35 years making them bigger, heavier, more powerful and less full efficient thus blurring the lines between them and the traditional full-size 1/2-ton pickups like the Ram 1500. How big the market is here for a D-50 size truck is anyone's guess today. I know when I was selling Toyotas over the last couple of years the number of people coming in looking for a base 4-cyl. Tacoma you could count on one hand. They just aren't in big demand. Most people want a V6 4x4 of some sort.....at least in this part of the country. Occasionally you get the guy that wants to cheapest 4-cyl 4x2 and has $16K to spend.....but like I said, not many of those customers exist. I don't think there is enough of a market there to bother chasing.
     
    UN4GTBL likes this.
  7. FreeLantz

    FreeLantz Well-Known Jeeper

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Messages:
    2,925
    Likes:
    1,440
    I owned two Dakotas and would love to own another mid-sized truck. Today's full-sized trucks are a lot larger than I need.
     
    dak4x4, UN4GTBL, XRT2SRT and 6 others like this.
  8. dodgeatheart

    dodgeatheart Not THAT guy again!

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2004
    Messages:
    1,099
    Likes:
    746
    I would probably buy a new Dakota (if it existed) over a new Ram. Better MPG, better maneuverability, decent payload and towing, cheaper, and its a better fit inside.

    One of the main things stopping me from getting a Colorado right now is price. I can buy a RAM for a few thousand more than a Colorado. Of course the RAM can be had for 9-10k off sticker and the Colorado has zero incentives.

    I would definitely buy a Dakota over a Colorado, if it were available.

    Colorado diesel coming soon...new temptation.
     
    UN4GTBL, XRT2SRT, MoparStu and 2 others like this.
  9. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    36,787
    Likes:
    19,611
    There is the problem in your equation. "Cheaper" is not likely to happen. You may get all the rest, but you won't get significantly cheaper. Colorado has shown that and there's no reason to think a new Dakota would be cheaper.
     
    UN4GTBL and Mike V. like this.
  10. Super Dak

    Super Dak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2003
    Messages:
    132
    Likes:
    106
    I'm a big fan or the original Dakotas (I've had a '92, '95, and still have my '99 R/T) but in typical fashion, they kept making them bigger (and more expensive) 'till they basically built themselves out of a market IMHO. Damn near Ram sized and almost the same price. It seems too many times, the answer to the next model year's (or generation's) upgrades are to make them bigger, and bigger. Look at what passes as a "compact" today. The new Colorado "looks" big (haven't seen one in person) but at least it has a diesel option.
    I'm sure it's (at least partially) market driven, but I think there's a lot of "some people are never happy" or "you can't please everyone" going on. Someone buys a small truck, lists all the features they like (smaller, easier to maneuver/park, better gas mileage, etc) then lists what they want to change (more power, more capability, more room/space etc). The next gen gets the upgrades, but loses some of the original benefits. Rinse and repeat 'till you end up with another full size :)
    But that's just me, I still loved my '84 Rampage (and have no need for a full size truck) so I'm probably wrong (or at the very least, out of touch with the rest of the market. I'm still waiting on a Wrangler based pickup :) )...
     
  11. dodgeatheart

    dodgeatheart Not THAT guy again!

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2004
    Messages:
    1,099
    Likes:
    746
    Well yes, when they're flying off the shelves I don't expect them to be much cheaper. They are cheaper by 3000-4000, but the loss in space and capabilities isn't worth it - might as well buy the RAM.

    From what I've read the new Colorado diesel will be in the 35-40k range for a 4x4 crew cab. Nuts.
     
    UN4GTBL likes this.
  12. LouJC

    LouJC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Messages:
    1,069
    Likes:
    902
    I too would buy a Dakota if it was offered again. We have had 2 Grand Cherokees and I nearly bought an '08 Dak but after I tried the Jeep with the Hemi the power difference was noticable. A full size truck is too big for my parking set up.
    If there was a mid size Ram it could be sold in South America and other markets where Fiat is strong which was not the case back when the Dak was still in production ; as long as it's designed to be suited for international markets as the Japanese trucks are.
     
    Prabhjot likes this.
  13. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    26,427
    Likes:
    22,139
    While I agree, I think the Canyon and Colorado are doing ok...

    Colorado 2015 YTD Sales: 48,784
    Canyon 2015 YTD Sales: 15,017

    Right now they are track to sell as well as 2006 and 2004 respectively which isn't bad at all. In fact it is actually a bit impressive and they have beaten my personal estimates.

    Yes, it is a cannibal, but not all sales are cannibal sales. The Colorado seems to be picking up stride in the fleet market (lower margin as you pointed out) which is not necessarily bad.

    Is it enough sales? For Colorado and Canyon yes, but I do not think the market is big enough for a new Dakota to compete with them and the Tacoma.

    I would love a Dakota, but I just don't think the market, margin, size, sales price gap to the full size, etc. makes sense at this time.

    Here is the link to an Allpar news article from April on this subject:

    http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2015/04/colorado-sales-argue-against-new-dakota-28238

    Mike
     
    UN4GTBL likes this.
  14. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    26,427
    Likes:
    22,139
    Not necessarily as the Dakota may have been too large for those markets.

    Mike
     
  15. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    26,427
    Likes:
    22,139
    This was the issue the Dakota struggled with the most at the end.

    Mike
     
    UN4GTBL and HotCarNut like this.
  16. Muther

    Muther Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    4,120
    Likes:
    4,136
    Honestly, as much as I miss my Dakota (99, RC, SB), I would not buy one again, unless it was a hot rod. Meaning, it would need to have a 5.7 hemi minimum. Thinking about it though, a Dakota with the PUG, and an 8 speed would really get after it!

    I really think that if FCA is going to get back int othe domestic, >full size truck market, that it should be done on a pick up significantly different, and not easily duplicated by the competition. If it were me, I would do the long ask for Jeep Wrangeler pick up.

    Does Trungler, or Wruck sound better?
     
    UN4GTBL likes this.
  17. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
    Staff Member Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2001
    Messages:
    35,042
    Likes:
    20,826
    Just remember, GM has a certain scale that Chrysler does not. GM, Ford, and Toyota can release just about anything and it will find a certain number of buyers. Well, so can Chrysler, but it will be a lower number of buyers.
     
  18. Muther

    Muther Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    4,120
    Likes:
    4,136
    A Wruck, or Trungler, because it would be a Jeep, would be much easier to move into overseas markets, too. Much weasier than a Ram.
     
  19. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    26,427
    Likes:
    22,139
    As previously discussed, the Dakota grew slightly, but the looks were deceiving. Many people think it grew much more than it really did. What hurt the last Dakota the most was the interior quality.

    The new Colorado/Canyon and marketed as midsize, not compact trucks... Just like the Dakota was.

    Mike
     
  20. MoparDanno

    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2010
    Messages:
    4,262
    Likes:
    4,629
    ANY midsizer that comes to fruition at this time would be a V6 FWD based layout. Period. IMO We don't need a Ridgeline on our hands... that size and style of truck has NEVER done well in NAFTA ( Ridgeline, Brat, Rampage etc... )

    The money is not there to develop a completely separate RWD truck based project that would fly solo-mio. And I say this as someone who has 3 Gen3 Dakotas sitting in the driveway.

    I do agree with Muther though, if they were to do a Dakota style pickup ( retro to the Gen3? LOL ) and slam a Hemi in it, I would be all over that thing. Just think how much fun that would be as a SRT 6.4 variant........ I do :)
     
    UN4GTBL and Mike V. like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...
 We are not affiliated with FCA. We make no claims regarding validity or accuracy of information or advice. Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.