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Most amusing recall of the year

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by Dave Z, Apr 14, 2020.

  1. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    FCA didn't get serious about addressing recalls until about 5 years ago when they got a slap down and a significant fine for poor handling of recalls.
     
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  2. Jerry Simcik

    Jerry Simcik Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, I'm not saying FCA shouldn't have recalls when there are issues. In fact, I wish they'd get out in front of MORE known issues (Hemi lifters, anyone???).

    But, each recall they start, every problem they admit to having (and then fixing), makes them look like they have WORSE quality than the companies that have the same issues or worse and simply don't do anything about that. This is due to the nature of how recalls are reported/publicized, and how lazy/ignorant most people are. (And you can't really look at anyone on Allpar as being a part of the "regular" population. Folks here are a more tuned-in, more in-the-know, etc.)

    Another curious thing to consider is the Takata air bag issue. If you recall, in that issue, Takata - the supplier - was mentioned specifically early on. As a result, people consider Takata negatively, and but generally give the (many) auto makers who relied on them as being "at fault".
     
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  3. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    Even with a long relationship with a supplier one can get problems.

    One of last ecamples is Toyota with its controlled supplier Denso.

    3.2 million recalled vehicles for the low pressure fuel pump (the one in the fuel tank) installed in several Toyota and Lexus models (2013 - 2019).

    The impeller deforms or crack and can, in some circunstances, arrive to interfere with pump body and stop working.

    Some of the vehicles with out of service fuel pumps had " ... fuel pumps that were produced with impellers of lower density and contain either a pump impeller of atypewith lower surface strength or (2) a pumpimpellerthat was exposed to production solvent drying for longer periods of time."
     
  4. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    You're painting with a very broad brush calling most people/customers idiots. Most people are pretty savvy If they have a computer or phone to study which auto they're going to purchase. And while recalls are an annoyance to most, the company is generally blamed. FCA would be wise to improve quality all the way around and recalls would drop dramatically.
     
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  5. rapidtrans

    rapidtrans Well-Known Member

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    Recall means it's fixed for free!
    Dealer gets paid and the opportunity to push additional service to customer.
    By the way. These wipers come from “China”. (pronounced like The Donald would”)
     
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  6. Jerry Simcik

    Jerry Simcik Well-Known Member

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    How many "typical" car buyers/owners have you dealt with in terms of either purchase or repair? People on auto forums are a subset of a much larger population. People are Allpar are a much smaller subset of that already limited subset. You can't look at what you see/read/hear here and make conclusions about the "general" population.

    About 86% of people look online when car shopping, but what they do online is mostly frivolous. They focus on prices and online reviews, rather than understanding the features they're paying for...

    Buyers number one concern is price. Number two is reliability. These things are very nearly inversely related...

    People are 21% MORE LIKELY to leave negative reviews than positive ones, recalls have a negative impact on brand perception, and people are more likely too look for online reviews than any sort of technical data when making a purchase decision - a reliance which is of highly questionable significance itself...
     
  7. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Owners' number one concern is Quality. We have been tracking this information for years.

    If you ask owners point blank what is most important to them, price comes to the top because price is easier to quantify and to articulate. But this is the sloppy research.

    The proper way to identify owners' greatest concern is to derive it statistically. When you do that, quality comes to the top, time after time, across every vehicle segment, in every market.

    With regards to online shoppers comparing prices in a vacuum: this is precisely the value branding is supposed to bring. A clear, strong brand provides the necessary "context" to buyers so that they know the level of quality, safety, customer service, performance, etc. they are getting for the price listed. It is for this reason that weaker brands have to discount: they lack the necessary context to justify their price, especially relative to the competition.
     
  8. Jerry Simcik

    Jerry Simcik Well-Known Member

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    The numerous links I provided above show that you are not correct. Do you disagree with those studies/metrics? Do you have any published data to back up your claims? Could be an interesting read...
     
  9. CherokeeVision

    CherokeeVision Well-Known Member

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    I'm more willing to accept a single 'oops' done on 'my' vehicle than accept that thousands of oops were done repeatedly.
    Those thousands of oops indicate major issues that occurred prior to assembly.
    A single oops is just an error.
     
  10. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Your first link doesn't work.

    Either way, to tell an automaker that price is most important in consumers minds is like saying that the earth is flat.

    Our work is proprietary so I cannot share specific data. However, here is an article we published a couple years ago based on consumer research conducted over many years. https://www.panalyticsgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Our-POV-on-Product-Quality.pdf
     
    #30 aldo90731, Apr 14, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
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  11. rapidtrans

    rapidtrans Well-Known Member

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    When I talk with people their perception of “Quality” includes the dealer experience.
    A bad sales or service experience seems more common than actual vehicle quality.
    Personally my dealer and vehicle quality of my last four mopars have been great.
    What turned me off was the Chrysler Financial group and the fact the LX cars are 15 years old.
     
  12. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    Image of a solid product, to me is like a three legged stool. One leg, good dealer, second leg, quality suppliers, third leg, build quality. If all three are good, your products will be.
     
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  13. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Even in the topic, there is evidence of the often adversarial relationship between FCA and its suppliers. Ideally, FCA and the suppliers should realize what is good for one is good for the other. Especially when the leader of FCA in the past said suppliers made too much profit.
     
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  14. Jerry Simcik

    Jerry Simcik Well-Known Member

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    That's actually the 3rd link that's broken (there needs to be an "f" at the end), but here it is:

    https://freckleiot.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Auto_FootFall_Q4-2018_US_FINAL.pdf
     
  15. Jerry Simcik

    Jerry Simcik Well-Known Member

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    There's not much data in that link/article. I get it, you're selling the research/data and you can't just give it away, but there's got to be something that is publicly available that shows some numbers/metrics??

    Regardless, you're saying the same thing I am (whether or not you realize it): People want their cars to "work" and "be built right" - they want "quality". They see recalls as an indicator of POOR QUALITY. Every time a recall is announced, the perception of a brand falls. Furthermore, what you refer to as "emotional quality" is, in fact, A PRICE CONCERN. Price is the primary concern - people are only willing to spend so much for something based on how THEY value various things. If they don't understand what quality is or what it costs, they won't know that the price being asked is fair and will just move on.
     
  16. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    FCA and before that Daimler have undone all the good that Chrysler had done with their suppliers. For 20 years this cheap price, cheaply made has been allowed to flourish. I'd like a bean counter to do the math over 20 years all the recalls and warranty work parts and labor costs to see how much money they have really saved.
     
  17. Jerry Simcik

    Jerry Simcik Well-Known Member

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    They'd come up with a negative number...
     
  18. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    You got it backwards on the first sentence, and you got it right on the last sentence —in bold. Quality determines the price consumers are willing to justify. In other words, price is the outcome.

    Consumers can negotiate the price, choose to buy from another dealer, or even buy another brand altogether, but they cannot alter the quality of the product.
     
    #38 aldo90731, Apr 15, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2020
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  19. BASONE88

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    You all are more or less saying the same thing. You're both right.

    Speaking of auto sales(in general), consumers absolutely have all kinds of choices. Backing off of car sales (specifically) it is also correct, that if the consumer doesn't understand the cost of it - they won't buy it(think: ice cube to an eskimo). And price is the primary concern - because of its direct link to perceived value(regardless of the product or service) .

    As long as you are dealing with outside suppliers two things are true. Consistency "to the nth degree" is impossible and your customer will blame you(the manufacturer) if there are any "quality issues." BTW, from the supplier side, this is the crux of what ultimately becomes perceived value to the end customer.

    Since that is true..then what a manufacturer has to do is manage their relationship and/or choose wisely when dealing with a supplier. The supplier is one in the same, and they make mistakes. So..even the most perfect marriage has problems.

    So what are you going to forgive and what ain't gonna cut it? Perceived value..
     
  20. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Price is NOT a primary concern. Value is.

    How many times we have heard of someone going in to buy a $15,000 car and driving off in a $25,000 vehicle instead?

    The additional $10,000 is the dealership doing a good job of articulating the superior value to the customer in the $25,000 vehicle.

    Value is made of many pieces, including expected reliability, safety record, utility and comfort, styling, performance, brand image, reputation for customer service, efficiency, expected resale...and price.
     
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