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Motor Trend's 2018 Car of the Year Award: Alfa Romeo Giulia

Discussion in 'Fiat News & Rumors' started by romalerig, Nov 28, 2017.

  1. KrisW

    KrisW Active Member

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    @T_690 @Deckard_Cain - The comany car market is exactly the reason why I'm not sure Giulia will be expanded downwards in price: the low-end of 3-Series/C-Klasse and A4 is dominated by company-car schemes, and there's a deeply-held preference for German brands in the two biggest company-car markets in Europe (UK and DE) - hardly surprising, as the big German players have spent the last three decades carving these markets up between them.
     
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  2. aldo90731

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    German luxury sales are aided by several things:

    Steady penetration into leasing
    - “owning” a vehicle for the duration of the warranty takes away much of the risk of getting stuck with a complex automobile that becomes expensive to repair.
    • Currently, up to 70% of luxury brands sales are comprised of leasing, partly aided by rapid-changing technology (i.e., luxury buyers want the latest and greatest without getting stuck with it when something new comes out), tax laws that favor lease write offs, and a “subscription economy” mentality.
    • But leasing is anathema to the traditional definition of luxury, which includes “enduring quality” as one of its core pillars. This suggests that German automakers are growing sales by attracting customers who do not fit the definition of “luxury.”

    The myth of “German engineering” - just as Italians don’t get credit for being able to manufacture trouble-free automobiles, Germans get too much credit for it.
    • This perception comes from a long tradition manufacturing high-precision machinery, including unique accomplishments through two world wars and thereafter. For several decades, highly accomplished Mercedes-Benzs and BMWs embodied German engineering, quality, and innovation to high-visibility owners.
    • The durability, simplicity and brilliance of the VW Beetle brought the brilliance of German engineering to consumer markets around the world. As brilliant as Minis and Fiats were in their heyday, they didn’t enjoy the strong reputation for durability of the original VW.
    • Despite a decline in actual reliability, German automakers have held onto the perception of quality by continuing to use superior quality materials and craftsmanship. Which, combined with leasing, seem good enough to convey “quality” throughout the duration of the “ownership” experience.
    Audi has grown sales by combining perceptions of German engineering excellence, creative use of quality materials, attractive styling, efficient packaging and heavy use of leasing. Mercedes and BMW have grown sales by exploiting perceptions for German engineering excellence, superior quality materials, by expanding downmarket into lower priced segments, and also aided by leasing.

    It is this perception of “quality” through engineering and choice of materials, and using leasing to extract the risk from engineering complexity, that enables German automakers to dominate luxury sales.
     
    #22 aldo90731, Nov 28, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
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  3. somber

    somber 370,000 miles
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    This would be the perfect car if only it had a manual transmission. Please, FCA, you can get a Giulia in Europe with manual - let us have it in the USA.
     
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  4. AlfaCuda

    AlfaCuda Active Member

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    Yesssss! Well done FCA! Excellent news. This can only help to raise the visibility of the brand further and tempt in some new buyers.

    @KrisW I would guess that the QF IS stealing sales from the default German M/AMG/RS trio. There are only so few hungry Alfisti who have been starved of such a product for eons.
     
    BASONE88 likes this.
  5. AlfaCuda

    AlfaCuda Active Member

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  6. KrisW

    KrisW Active Member

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    The irony being that the Volkswagen Beetle is as much a triumph of British Manufacturing Engineering as German. The British Army's Electrical and Mechanical Engineering corps (REME) ran the Wolfsburg works for the first five years of Volkswagen's existence; they took possession of a disused site, and handed it back to the German government in late 1949 as an operational car factory that was already building "Beetles" for the civilian market. The work to turn the pre-war "KdF-Wagen" into the post-war "Volkswagen 1100" was done at this time.

    ( And we probably shouldn't forget the Czechs, either - probably Europe's most underrated engineering nation. Ferdinand Porsche's "KdF-Wagen" shares a suspiciously large part of its design innovations with Czech manufacturer Tatra's T570 project from 1932. After invading CZ, Hitler ensured that the prototypes and tooling for this car found their way to the KdF-Werke in Wolfsburg. Volkswagen paid DM 1,000,000 to Tatra in an out-of-court settlement in 1965, and the company's PR department would prefer that you never mention the matter ever again. )
     
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  7. T_690

    T_690 Active Member

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    Yes, leasing is especially important to this segment. But here I was more into some market specific issues.
    For example. You got a budget for a lease. Peugeot 508 fits in the budget and employee likes it. But employer gives a red light. Employer push you to Škoda Superb or VW Passat even if rate for Passat is higher compared to 508. Maybe he will allow yet another German in Opel Insignia (Buick Regal for US forum members). And that's it.
    There are also some other scenarios. Like tenders or contract between specific company and lease house where FCA products are not price competitive.
    But what bothers me is very common practice in Germany. Buy German.

    I will give an example from my country. Giulia Veloce diesel is more attractive for lease than BMW 325d with similar equipment. But people rarely buy or lease such a high end cars.

    German engineering is so overrated. IMO, media guys help them a lot. Especially here in Europe where magazines are in business connection with one German car manufacturer. It's easy to guess which group is constantly in affairs. It's VAG. They stole Beetle. Even first generation Golf is not completely their child. They had huge issues to conceive it by their own engineers. @KrisW could say more on this subject.

    And what to say about BMW. They rose once they started to copy Alfa Romeo's approach. They even stole one design element from Lancia and called it a Hoffmeister kink.

    Mercedes is Mercedes. They had their own path.
     
  8. Muther

    Muther Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the call out to Czech. I have been trumpeting that horn for decades (Dr. Porsche was Czech, not German)!

    Expanding the market, or stealing sales? I think both. I think that there are a lot of folks at the end of the day, that don’t want German cars, that do want a compression of style, performance and handling that those cars offer.

    Along comes the Italian and boom, all of sudden it taps into that feeling.

    Remember, Alfa Romeo literally invented/perfected performance sedan-coupe segment. Mismanagement caused them to forsake it, and let the Germans expand their initial foothold into segment dominance.

    I see this as a long awaited return to glory for Alfa.

    Plus, the Giulia has more style and panache in its license plate bolts than the the others have in their entire car. The car is dripping with sex and positive energy.
     
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  9. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

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    PMD is burning FCA, MT and this car down in his recent column. He just hates it all.
     
  10. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    He does, but that doesn't mean he's right.
     
  11. Erik Latranyi

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    Can anyone refute this part of what PMD said?

    As most readers know, I despise and detest every frickin’ award perpetrated by the automotive media. It’s a veritable Huckster’s Paradise simply devoid of credibility on even the most basic of levels, and, as most enthusiasts who actually read the “buff” books know, they’re blatant revenue-generating scams masquerading as achievements worthy of gravitas.

    It’s a dance that has deep roots in this business, and it all started decades ago at Motor Trend. In my previous life in advertising, I distinctly remember having to muster my creative troops to “pitch” Motor Trend executives on the notion that the 1986 Dodge Lancer (yeah, I know, what a joke) should be considered for their COTY. We spent a full week mounting a creative presentation to show them how Dodge would advertise the award on TV and in print, with all the proper M/T “caliper” award logos properly positioned. This was combined with a media presentation delineating how much Dodge would be spending should the award be bestowed on the Lancer. Thankfully, the car didn’t “win” but I will never forget what an absolute joke it was, a blatantly fraudulent pursuit to line Petersen Publishing’s pockets.
     
  12. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

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    He's entertaining at times. How did I know he was going to jump right on this. Hilarious.
    I wonder if he'd say the same things about MT if his pick (The Honda) was selected? I doubt it. Regardless, MT's opinion wouldn't matter to me anyways.
     
    #32 MPE426HEMI, Nov 28, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  13. romalerig

    romalerig Well-Known Member

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    It's not relevant on this topic what PMD has to say about MT's credibility. But if we absolutely wanna say something about that, then we should talk about PMD's credibility too. Frankly, I don't have time for this, sorry.
     
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  14. aldo90731

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    Indeed. Those are the vagaries of history.

    Here in the US, after the war Ford handed the blueprints for the GP vehicle back to Willys-Overland, as Ford saw no use for it.

    Having little else to make money on, Willys-Overland adapted the Jeep for civilian use, and American Motors in turn, with little else to make money on kept producing it for the same reason, until Chrysler bought AMC for the value of the Jeep brand. Seventy-five years later, Jeep is a success story despite its unlikely twists and turns.
     
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  15. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    And Ford later regretted the military contact money they were no longe rmaking. To get that military contract was one of the reasons the original Bronco was created, though it did not steal away the military contract.
     
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  16. Erik Latranyi

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    It is funny how so many will claim the Quality Reports are biased with advertising dollars but dismiss the notion that Automotive Awards could be biased with advertising dollars.

    Frankly, I think Motor Trend is not selling the COTY award anymore. I think the Giulia is brilliant in design and engineering from its capability point of view. The vehicle handling is incredible and better than any of its competition.

    I also think that the execution of the production of the Giulia is horribly flawed, rushed and untested, which is what has led to the multiple reports of problems.
     
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  17. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Kinda funny since the vehicle was developed by American Bantam, not Willys OR Ford. Ford didn’t hand the blueprints back, they just never made their own. Willys trademarked the name and started production, though it was a low-profit item (which is why Ford didn't make one — they used all their steel allotment on more profitable cars).
     
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  18. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

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    If I wanted to buy a Giulia, it wouldn’t matter to me either way. I’ve take most of those things as entertainment and advertisement only and wouldn’t factor anything good or bad they had to say into one of my decisions. It’s not just MT either. I pay no attention to any of it. But, if it gets positive exposeure for FCA/Alfa, it don’t hurt either. I can’t refute what PMD says, he knows more about the automotive business than I do, but he’s entertainment also and not someone I’d ask for buying advice.
     
  19. aldo90731

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    Well, according to Wiki, the resulting MB that we got to know as the Jeep was the combination of elements from Bantam, Willys and Ford designs: Willys MB - Wikipedia
     
  20. mopar22

    mopar22 Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't be enough take in the states after doing crash testing and everything all over again. That why it's not here, they would lose way too much money
     

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