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Motor Trend's 2018 Car of the Year Award: Alfa Romeo Giulia

Discussion in 'Fiat News & Rumors' started by romalerig, Nov 28, 2017.

  1. Muther

    Muther Well-Known Member

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    LOL, quit being sensible.

    Seriously, though, having driven a manual Challenger, and an 8speed Challenger, side by side and for the most part identical, I’d take the auto 8 speed. It’s that good. Don’t get me wrong, I have a very strong affinity for rowing your own gears, but at the end of the day, I want what’s faster, and THAT sir, is the 8speed.
     
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  2. T_690

    T_690 Active Member

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    I totally disagree. Your input suggest that actually engineering team messed up the whole process.

    And now please give us manufacturing issues without using your dear friend Google.
    I doubt you can do that without Google because you are actually totally uninterested in Italian FCA products and you despise them.

    I can help you. Most are software or ECU related issues. And that's expected from completely new products.
    Giulia is not only on completely new Giorgio platform. Giulia was also premiere for GME family and new V6 90° engine with cylinder deactivation.
    And of course that all problems are solved. It's nothing unexpected.
    It's also true that we in Europe had far less problems because most Europeans choose diesel. And diesel engine is continuation of Fiat Family B engines although this time with new aluminum engine block instead of cast iron.

    I also doubt that you ever owned BMW or similar cars. It's almost normal that your car will blink like a Christmas tree till the first service.
     
    #42 T_690, Nov 29, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2017
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  3. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    So many excuses for quality issues. That so many issues were not caught by testing, that flashes were not applied until purchasers had problems, just excuses. Where is quality control during testing, manufacturing and dealer prep?

    Being no better than the competition is not the way to establish a good reputation, especially when the past experiences of poor quality.
     
    #43 valiant67, Nov 29, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
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  4. Erik Latranyi

    Level III Supporter

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    Do not tell me how I feel about something. You do not have the privilege.

    Secondly, just go over to GiuliaForums and you will see the issues that are being experienced by loyal Alfisti here in the US. Several have had their Giulias bought back, others replaced. Vehicles have shut down for various problems (like after filling with gas). Multiple electronic gremlins affect many vehicles.

    A few Giulias are just fine. No issues.

    Everyone (even those with problems) have stated that the Giulia is an engineering marvel with regard to handling and performance (when it works). There is no doubt that FCA engineering did a great job. But the problems are mostly inexcusable, especially after a nearly 1 year delay of coming to the US so they can "get it right". Now, many loyal Alfisti are feeling like guinea pigs doing the beta testing for FCA.

    Even worse, giving untested vehicles to the press where almost every journalist experienced a problem with their Giulia is absolute stupidity and demonstrates that they really do not care.

    With regard to how I feel about Italian FCA products, you could not be more wrong.

    So, please do not come here and try to put words in members' mouths or tell them how they feel. It is violation of Allpar rules.

    If you do not like my posts, ignore me. I will continue to stand up for an FCA that believes in quality and customer service.
     
    #44 Erik Latranyi, Nov 29, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2017
  5. Erik Latranyi

    Level III Supporter

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    The best example is that the Giulia was delayed by nearly a year in the US, so they could "get it right". The Alfa infortainment system could not handle US area codes when paired to a phone. It needed an update for that and other problems. How is that possible if you did the least bit of testing?
     
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  6. T_690

    T_690 Active Member

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    Most Giulias have no issues. It's obvius that you are rarely on giuliaforums and that you are very selective.
     
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  7. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    No one has said every Giulia has problems.And excusing Giulia's problems simply because other manufacturers have problems is a poor excuse.
    One need not only look at the forums. The early magazine cars should have been enough to raise severe concerns.
    When a manufacturer has a history of quality issue and re-enters a market, things need to be as close to perfect as possible.
    I guess you are satisfied with things the way they are. I expect better. For Alfa, for Fiat, for C/D/J/R.
    If Sergio truly wants high margins, quality must be addressed. Alfa needs high quality (and the resulting high resale values) if it expects to be a real player in the segment due to the popularity of leasing.
     
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  8. T_690

    T_690 Active Member

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  9. KrisW

    KrisW Active Member

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    Looking at car-brand or car-model forums is not a way to judge model reliability. Owners join forums for assistance, and so forums tend to over-represent owners who have problems. If you see twenty out of a hundred Giulia owners on "Giulia Forums" who have a problem with their car, that absolutely does not mean that 20% of all owners have problems. The vast majority of owners have no problems whatsoever with their cars, and are too busy enjoying them or otherwise living their life to join a web forum just to regularly post "hey, my car's still working properly".

    To borrow a phrase from the TV business: good news doesn't make good "News".

    The fact that customer issues exist is a hollow argument anyway - every single product has faults, and there's no good evidence to show that Alfa is worse than its competition. Feel free to disbelieve that if it suits your world-view, but the most important indicator of manufacturing quality in the long term is the trend in defects, not the absolute number. The very first Giulias shipped to the USA had some issues, but those problems aren't showing in more recent cars because Alfa, like the rest of FCA follows best practice manufacturing processes that prevent recurrence of known problems. If you've ever developed any kind of consumer product, you'll know that a decade of simulation and lab testing won't find half the bugs that a week in the hands of a paying customer does. (If you can solve that problem properly, your time is wasted on Allpar - you can go and make millions as a consultant right now)

    But all that is about manufacturing quality, which is a concept that in general, the public just does not understand (like most statistical processes; the furore over the result of the US 2016 Presidential Election showed just how many people just do not understand statistics or probability).

    As @aldo90731 has pointed out repeatedly here, "quality" to customers is the whole experience of buying and owning the product. The objective quality of the manufactured good itself is often only a tiny part of this (e.g., Range Rover; Objectively the cars are junk, but they're aspirational junk that you go to a beautiful dealership to buy... then repair). To address what customers regard as "quality", Alfa needs to take care of each customer as well, or better, than its competitors, and that's the hard part. It's also the part that you won't hear about if you're only looking for people reporting their problems. Lots of forum posters start with a litany of issues, and never follow up to say "oh yeah, I brought it to the dealer, and they fixed everything". Most never post again after being told "dude, you've got a warranty - just phone the dealership"
     
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  10. somber

    somber 370,000 miles
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    I'm not at all interested in what's faster - I want what is more enjoyable, and for me that's a manual transmission. I imagine that before long, autonomous sports cars will be faster than human-driven ones, but that doesn't mean I want one.
     
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  11. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

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    There will be no enjoyment in the automotive world by then. It will be solely to commute. There will no longer be a "Driver's car".
     
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  12. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    Erik, be gentle, inform yourself better before writing about software "flashes".
    Just check, for example, the number of BMW series 3 firmware updates. You'll surprised.

    I wrote about that before in another post, also gave the links where TSB can be found and checked (partial total content, but complete list and number).
     
  13. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    And again justifying FCA faults by pointing to another auto maker’s faults does nothing to improve FCA quality.
     
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  14. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    I don't justify, simply remembering that all manufacturer update software often, some more , some less.
    Is like for recalls, nowdays are higher than 10 years ago.

    That are facts.

    Or I should wrote.
    Toyota has more recalls now than 10 years ago => Toyota quality has decreased.
    Porsche has more recalls now than 10 years ago => Porsche quality is inferior than 10 years ago.
    And so on ...

    Is the quality of products inferior or the controls that are more or ...?
    Is that information is spread via Internet more easily or is the quality of vehicles inferior ?
     
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  15. Erik Latranyi

    Level III Supporter

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    Let's see where BMW ranks in quality versus Alfa.
     
  16. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    "perceived quality" since it is result not only of the product itself, but also of service, dealership experience, pro-active action of manufacturer, ....
     
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  17. AlfaCuda

    AlfaCuda Active Member

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    A lot of these so called quality issues can be erased by excellent dealer experiences, as practiced by almost every German manufacturer. THAT is what I think FCA needs to strengthen.
     
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  18. butJohnDoe

    butJohnDoe Member

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    The new iPhone launched and couldn't display the letter i. "How is that possible if you did the least bit of testing"?
     
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  19. Erik Latranyi

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    Yup, and everyone can see Apple on the downward trend right now. Steve Jobs is the one who made that company work and since his unfortunate demise, they have not been the same.
     
  20. Andy69

    Andy69 Active Member

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    just check JD power germany 2016 and 2017 so you see where BMW stands atm
     

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